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So the 3-million square foot excess GM property is purchased by Caddo Parish at roughly $2.50 per square foot. Mr. Elio plans to sub-lease 1/3 of the 3-million square feet.

Not sure why you need 1-million square feet to assemble this elusive vehicle?

"they talked to Elio a few weeks ago and the head of the Phoenix, Ariz.-based start-up firm indicated advanced sales and efforts to raise capital were going well. But Elio did not say when activity at the plant would commence" - not seeing the seed money?

http://pdf.secdatabase.com/625/0000949353-14-000073.pdfAll

This as he swims in government subsidies. But at the end of this Ponzi scheme, Paul and his real estate developer/partner Stuart Lichterup will have control of the old GM property!
 

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Elio wants to build their own engine, and their own bodyshell. Depending on how many parts you want to build in-house, 1 million square feet for an automotive assembly plant gets used up in a hurry.

I am very skeptical of Elio's business model. It's hard to convince Americans to buy a normal small car, why would they buy something this oddball?
 

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think of the HMV Freeway built in Burnsville MN... 1980-1981,82 600 units before giving up.

me wonders how this will fair in todays economy... nearly $7 grand for an enclosed three wheeler, (projected price) with a special built body,AND ENGINE...

who is putting these together at that price? Chinese kids?

BTW I own a Freeway.... and yes its a "collectible"... collects dust!

steveg
 

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think of the HMV Freeway built in Burnsville MN... 1980-1981,82 600 units before giving up.

me wonders how this will fair in todays economy... nearly $7 grand for an enclosed three wheeler, (projected price) with a special built body,AND ENGINE...

who is putting these together at that price? Chinese kids?

BTW I own a Freeway.... and yes its a "collectible"... collects dust!

steveg
the comparison to the Freeway is fair, or perhaps the Corbin Sparrow, or even the Litestar. The reality is that there is a very limited number of people that will buy a 'unique' vehicle and the economy of scale is just not there. The cost of developing your own engine (which incidentally Corbin was doing for the follow-on Merlin). It's very expensive to make a limited-production vehicle -- unfortunately that's just the reality. Additionally they have it priced like a mass-produced motorcycle -- I still say it don't add up. I see lawyers in their future...
 

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Specifically ... bankruptcy lawyers!

There is another 3-wheeler in production in North America that is reasonably successful ... the Can-Am Spyder, and that has its own engine. BUT ... That vehicle has Bombardier behind it, and Bombardier is a huge and diverse company with vast engineering resources, and Rotax (the engine manufacturing company) is a division of Bombardier that already builds lots of engines under contract to other manufacturers. Canada may not have any cars that we can call our own, in terms of the nameplate's origin, but we do have Can-Am to call our own.

The Can-Am costs more than $7,000, though. A lot more. And some people are willing to pay it ... because they built some desirability into the vehicle. It's easier to sell a smaller number of vehicles with a premium price tag than it is to sell a large number of low-priced vehicles. Just ask Tesla. But you have to build something that people want to buy for this to work.

But in this case ... I foresee them selling a tiny number of low-priced vehicles ... followed by bankruptcy. Very few people will consider this to be a desirable vehicle. (I sure don't.)
 

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If Elio actually produces 12 of these cars, I will be really shocked. It really doesn't even seem possible. The R&D into a working engine would eat a solid decade of profit at that price point, and demand.
 

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Now that's the smartest thing I've read about this saga. Direct sales and service carried out by authorised service centres. That means your Elio dealer may be hundreds of miles away, but you can get warranty work done at your local Pep Boys (example)...smart could learn a little something from that idea. :p

Ever since seeing Bob's pictures, I was wondering what Continental had going on inside the car. I like the idea the the entire infotainment system is dependent on your smartphone. No messy OE systems to deal with, just your already familiar smartphone.

Though, that begs the question: This car appeals to people who cannot afford your average car, want to save fuel, want to save the environment, and those who want something different.

I wonder how many in their target demographic actually has smartphones??

Still finding it hard to see where $6,800 is coming from. Even the Can Am costs much more money and it's effectively just a three wheeled motorcycle. And they had the engineering prowess of Bombardier to back them up.
 

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Elio Motors...just another underfund automotive dream...

Sadly...these types of projects are always using "OPM" as a business model...thus...they're always destined to fail!

Elio Company Stores...crash test certifications...specifically engineered engine designs..all predicated on the "OPM" business model...just a bunch of marketing hype...with no possibility of real world success!

FYI..."OPM" is...other people's money!






 

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Elio Motors...just a silly pipe dream...

Sadly...these types of projects are always using "OPM" as a business model...thus...they're always destined to fail!

Elio Company Stores...crash test certifications...specifically engineered engine designs..all predicated on the "OPM" business model...just a bunch of marketing hype...with no possibility of real world success!






Volkswagen has a functional 250mpg non-hybrid car that weighs more than a smart.

Also, there was the Geo Metro, which is still by and large unmatched by much more expensive hybrids on fuel efficiency and cost almost nothing.

There's nothing that would preclude an Elio from being built at those prices and performance.
 

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Volkswagen has a functional 250mpg non-hybrid car that weighs more than a smart.

Also, there was the Geo Metro, which is still by and large unmatched by much more expensive hybrids on fuel efficiency and cost almost nothing.

There's nothing that would preclude an Elio from being built at those prices and performance.
Volkswagen & GM (Geo Metro) have large pools of working capitol to finance their automotive development ventures...Elio has no sustainable source of funding...they use "OPM" as a source of capital...poor business model...zero chance of real world sucess!

Seriously...would you loan Elio money??
>:D
 

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Volkswagen has a functional 250mpg non-hybrid car that weighs more than a smart.

Also, there was the Geo Metro, which is still by and large unmatched by much more expensive hybrids on fuel efficiency and cost almost nothing.

There's nothing that would preclude an Elio from being built at those prices and performance.
The Geo Metro was VERY basic transportation made just before all the 'heavy' mandated safety structure kicked in; so, you couldn't build a Geo Metro that would get the same mileage, or the same weight (although you could get close on the mileage with Direct injection), and you certainly couldn't build it any cheaper than the low-level Korean cars being imported. Especially, if you plan on using US-sourced parts and labor!

The VW is horribly expensive, and it likely wouldn't pass US safety and emissions standards (emission standards for sure!).

As noted by others, the Bombardier Can-Am Spyder is basically a 3-wheeled motorcycle, and it costs nearly double what Elio says they are going to sell it for.

No, in the end, if it sounds too good to be true... then someone is going to lose their shirt!

Now, the T-25 was revolutionary and was made specifically to make cheaply in small production runs without large capital expenditures. I'd have more faith in this thing if they would have scored a deal with Gordon Murray. This thing had got Aptera written all over it!:eek:

Yeah, but they'll make that up in volume....:D
We, down here in TX, call that Aggie economics!:D
 

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Volkswagen & GM (Geo Metro) have large pools of working capitol to finance their automotive development ventures...Elio has no sustainable source of funding...they use "OPM" as a source of capital...poor business model...zero chance of real world sucess!

Seriously...would you loan Elio money??
>:D
Exactly. Elio has shown no proof that this is a sustainable venture. This is no Tesla.

All Elio has is loaned money, 14,000 reservations (which aren't guaranteed sales), and one huge promise.

If his car even hits the market and it doesn't sell, he'll be off the market quicker than ill fated Tucker.

Furthermore, does Elio even have a market here? As it already stands, small cars are a hard sell.

Now we're trying to sell them a car that's a wheel short, not crash tested, and requires a smartphone to work?

Don't get me wrong guys, I LOVE the concept behind the Elio. I would buy one in a millisecond. It's like the plausible version of the Aptera that anyone could afford. Not bad looking either.

But they're making some purty huge promises here.

I believed it when they showed prototypes put together out of spare parts from old Fords, but now that pretty much everything is bespoke and will be produced in America...Whaaaaaaa??
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I know this has nothing to do with startup costs, ect. and I don't pretend to be a marketing expert. But it seems to be that if a person is willing or is interested enough to pay 6800, he/she'd be willing and able to pay 10k
for a basic model out the door. Options extra of course and that doesn't mean more for a radio, glove box and other basics that have become basic to the consumer. 10k for a car with 80mpg out the door! Imagine.
 

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I do like that article and also believe the Elio might not make it, though I think his reasons aren't sound at all:

1. Due to the uprising of three wheeled contraptions in the U.S. (and movements by Elio himself), in 43 states it's legal to drive a two/three wheeled enclosed vehicle without a helmet.

The other two states (Illinois is one of them) don't require anything at all. That's not going to change anytime soon either. Bikers around here seem to understand the risk and not a whole lot of people are lobbying for a change in the law.

The laws in the other 5 states are being worked on, apparently.

2. Likewise, in many states you do not need a motorcycle license to drive a trike.

Elio and a few other companies are fighting legislation in both #1 and #2 . It seems states are willing to lax the laws for enclosed vehicles, so I don't think this will be a problem.

3. Buying parts from suppliers is much cheaper than building them yourself. This saves a TON on R&D costs.

That isn't Elio's problem. Elio's problem is that he wants to build the thing using a mix of bespoke parts (now, the engine too) and sourced parts all made in the USA then built in his plant, in the USA.

I've yet to see a car or anything resembling a car built in the USA using USA made parts going for less than $10k. Maybe he's going to be paying his production line workers minimum wage or something...

4. Almost in every instance I've seen, motorcycle insurance is dramatically cheaper than car insurance.

I want to get a sportbike some time in the near future, so some time ago I got some quotes for insurance on some sportbikes. For the most part, the insurance cost for them would be much cheaper than I'm paying for car insurance. And with some firms, if I bundled both smart and sportbike insurance into the same policy, it would be even cheaper.

And finally, I'm not sure why he threw the DeltaWing in there. That's an awful comparison. The DeltaWing is a four wheeled racecar designed to great aero and great downforce.

For the most part, a three wheeled design resembling the DeltaWing's would lead to catastrophic understeer in trike applications like the Elio, Sparrow, and Aptera. And if the centre of gravity is high enough, stability becomes a rather large concern.

Though, there are good designs (like stretchmobile's trike) that will work just fine.

Designs like the Elio, Morgan Three Wheeler, and Can Am Spyder benefit from better stability and usually better handling.
 
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