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Discussion Starter #1
We've got about 600 miles on our ED now and it seems to have exceptionally good range while driving around the city. My wife averages just barely under 1 mile per 1% of SOC while tooling around running errands in stop and go traffic in our moderately hilly neighborhood. Typically, over the course of a couple of days, she will drive something like 45 miles and the SOC will will show 52-53% or around there. These early summer days have been in the 60-80 degree F. range so we're mostly not using the A/C nor heater.

I've done a basic GPS validation of the odometer and it seems to be accurate within my error of measurement, which is probably 2-3% max. So yesterday I decided to go out into the country and drive a curvy, winding loop which contains most 35-45 MPH speed limit roads with minimal stop signs but lots of little ups and downs. I gave up after about 90 minutes and returned home. Final tally was 63 miles and remaining SOC was around 47%. I've run the SOC down to 20% but no lower. Can it really be that if we ran it to 0% SOC, that we could go 120 miles in this manner? And maybe if my wife drives since she is 75 pounds lighter than me?

On the flip side, we've done about 55 miles of almost strictly freeway in moderate traffic at speeds averaging 65 MPH and got the SOC down to 20%, so that seems about spot on.

No modifications other than a precision alignment (factory alignment toe settings were terrible and would have probably led to the tires being worn out in 15k miles or less). I'm using 30/34 PSI front/rear.

Seems unusual, no?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Definitely no complaints! But I haven't seen any other complaints about large non-linearities with the SOC meter in the bottom half or as it approaches zero.

All in all, this was a one-off experiment to see what kind of range I could get under close to ideal conditions. I doubt I'd have the patience to do this again, nor would I consider regularly trying to eek out the last bit of efficiency at the expense of driving it in a fun manner. It is good to know that if we got into a situation where it would be a reach to get home, that I know how much more range I could expect by driving differently.
 

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No modifications other than a precision alignment (factory alignment toe settings were terrible and would have probably led to the tires being worn out in 15k miles or less). I'm using 30/34 PSI front/rear.
Very interesting! Because I get average range in my smart (maybe 90-100 mi if driven carefully in hyper-mileing mode 30-45 mph in warm weather) and also, my rear tires (mostly driving in said mode) only lasted about 16,000 miles!

But my understanding is that aside from front toe, the alignment is not adjustable on the Smart. Did the alignment shop install some aftermarket stuff to make the camber and rear toe adjustable?
 

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When clients ask me "what range" they should expect, I stick STRICTLY to the EPA averages. I believe the EPA claims for the smart EV are very fair, and very accurate based on how I would prefer to use the car. I do believe if necessary I can definitely modify my driving and usage behavior to exceed 80 miles, and I can definitely be an energy hog and get less than 68 miles.

In my opinion, there are far too many lease returns not being purchased on the strict idea that "the car doesn't get enough range" or "the car doesn't get 68 miles" even though TIME AND TIME AGAIN many owners of vehicles just aren't willing to exercise anything beyond lazy thinking to achieve the 68 miles.

Many of these folks literally look at the instrument cluster and see "45 miles (or any number lower than 68)" and give up thinking the range is only "45 miles." No!... silly! It's a predictive number, based on past and current usage. So if you're sitting in a parking lot for 30 minutes with the a/c running, it's going to continually give you a lower number because you're wasting energy and aren't going anywhere.

And then they don't even drive the car for 45 miles because they are too scared, and then 3 years later they're blaming the car and bringing it back and buying a Toyota hybrid or a really expensive EV car like a Tesla or Chevy Bolt, when some of those folks could have taken advantage of what they had but were too scared (or brain dead) to use (the smart and it's $100/some per month payment).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Very interesting! Because I get average range in my smart (maybe 90-100 mi if driven carefully in hyper-mileing mode 30-45 mph in warm weather) and also, my rear tires (mostly driving in said mode) only lasted about 16,000 miles!

But my understanding is that aside from front toe, the alignment is not adjustable on the Smart. Did the alignment shop install some aftermarket stuff to make the camber and rear toe adjustable?
No, I left the camber alone. I don't recall the exact values but they were relatively consistent side to side and negative all around. I had pretty significant toe in from the factory both front and rear. Because our Smart is mostly going to be a lower speed vehicle, I had it set to 1/32 toe in both fronts, and had it set to zero toe at the rear, so I'd get a little bit of dynamic toe out under power and at speed. The idea behind that was to help the rear end rotate a bit, and it seems to have reduced some of the relentless understeer with the OEM wheels. It's definitely more stable at highway speeds and transitioning from going straight to turning at high speeds.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
When clients ask me "what range" they should expect, I stick STRICTLY to the EPA averages. I believe the EPA claims for the smart EV are very fair, and very accurate based on how I would prefer to use the car.
I think some of the issue is in interpreting the EPA averages. For the 2015 ED, it is "107 combined city/highway, 122 MPGe city, 93 MPGe highway, and 32 kwh/100 miles". I'm not even sure how the EPA intended that to be interpreted. As someone who wasn't concerned with this specific thing during my entire process in buying this car, I **still** don't know how to interpret it and deduce a "range" from it. If I had to guess right now, I'd use the "32 kwh/100 miles, and based on the 17.6 kwh battery pack size, calculate it's good for 55 miles.
 

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MY08 cabrio MY09 cabrio Brabus MY15 ED
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In my opinion, there are far too many lease returns not being purchased on the strict idea that "the car doesn't get enough range" or "the car doesn't get 68 miles"...
The HUGE residual buyout at lease end on an ED is the kiss of death to purchase.

Why buy for $12-14,000 when the off-lease marketplace is flooded with sub-$6k low mileage ED's?
 

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The HUGE residual buyout at lease end on an ED is the kiss of death to purchase.

Why buy for $12-14,000 when the off-lease marketplace is flooded with sub-$6k low mileage ED's?
I would do the same, but the market is flooded with low cost ones because there are many suckers out there who had the car and refused to believe it would achieve 68 miles simply because the gauge would often read less than that. So too many return the vehicle and don't lease a replacement smart, and even if they could get their vehicles for less than that the price has to be artificially low before they are sold.

That bug has hit other EV vehicles as well. The overwhelming majority of the time when an EV driver claims their vehicle doesn't achieve the advertised EPA figures it is because they quite simply don't know how to use their car properly.
 

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I think some of the issue is in interpreting the EPA averages. For the 2015 ED, it is "107 combined city/highway, 122 MPGe city, 93 MPGe highway, and 32 kwh/100 miles". I'm not even sure how the EPA intended that to be interpreted. As someone who wasn't concerned with this specific thing during my entire process in buying this car, I **still** don't know how to interpret it and deduce a "range" from it. If I had to guess right now, I'd use the "32 kwh/100 miles, and based on the 17.6 kwh battery pack size, calculate it's good for 55 miles.
I know how, but my explanation of it won't be any better than what is explained on the monroney sticker. I suggest you re-read your monroney sticker and hopefully eventually what it explains you will figure out. It's as clear and concise of an explanation that is possible in such a limited space. :nerd:
 

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We've got about 600 miles on our ED now and it seems to have exceptionally good range while driving around the city. My wife averages just barely under 1 mile per 1% of SOC while tooling around running errands in stop and go traffic in our moderately hilly neighborhood. Typically, over the course of a couple of days, she will drive something like 45 miles and the SOC will will show 52-53% or around there. These early summer days have been in the 60-80 degree F. range so we're mostly not using the A/C nor heater.

I've done a basic GPS validation of the odometer and it seems to be accurate within my error of measurement, which is probably 2-3% max. So yesterday I decided to go out into the country and drive a curvy, winding loop which contains most 35-45 MPH speed limit roads with minimal stop signs but lots of little ups and downs. I gave up after about 90 minutes and returned home. Final tally was 63 miles and remaining SOC was around 47%. I've run the SOC down to 20% but no lower. Can it really be that if we ran it to 0% SOC, that we could go 120 miles in this manner? And maybe if my wife drives since she is 75 pounds lighter than me?

On the flip side, we've done about 55 miles of almost strictly freeway in moderate traffic at speeds averaging 65 MPH and got the SOC down to 20%, so that seems about spot on.

No modifications other than a precision alignment (factory alignment toe settings were terrible and would have probably led to the tires being worn out in 15k miles or less). I'm using 30/34 PSI front/rear.

Seems unusual, no?
Not exactly unusual. I run my tires slightly over pressure too. (1-2 lbs). Stock alignment. Swapping Kumhos for Toyos summer and winter respectively.

Here's our rules of thumb:

- Optimal speeds for energy usage are 40-80 km/h or 25-50 mph (i.e. greater than EPA range)
- Energy draw goes up exponentially as speed increases
- Fan draws effective range down about 10% (regardless of AC/Heat/circulate)
- Cabin heater draws effective range down 40%
- AC is a modest draw. It will come on automagically when the battery pack internal temp is >30C
- 54 km will use 55% charge at -5C (23F) and 40% charge at 25C (77F). On highway, with hills and wind, various conditions.


So, yah, if you drive a modest speed and don't pull too much with climate control you'll get better than EPA range.
 

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My personal best on a 2014 smartED (Cabrio) is 131 miles w/ about 3% SOC remaining.

ALL surface streets (-40mph), NO Highway speeds, assorted stop/go and signals.
Hilly Northern VA area (I have adjustable regen)

My favorite regen story is about a month after I got "Miss Kitty" I went to a friend's house for dinner/movie.

He lives at the top of a mountain. When I arrived I had less than 20% SOC.
I plugged into his 240v charger (he has a different brand EV) and by the time I was ready to leave I was at 85% SOC.

I waved goodbye, and cranked regen to maximum and coasted down his mountain.

By the time I was off the mountain, I was reading +90% SOC?!?!?
I was pretty impressed.
 

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Can it really be that if we ran it to 0% SOC, that we could go 120 miles in this manner?

... Seems unusual, no?


This thread compelled me last night to do an ED range test of my own. Not sure if my testing logic was right, but here's how it went...

Last night, I loaded up the dachshund and headed to Home Depot on an errand. I started with a full charge.

I picked a country backroad route, with gentle rolling hills, speed limits around 40 mph, and minimal traffic or stopping.

Upon heading out, I reset the trip odometer. During the drive, I watched the SOC gauge like a hawk and used hypothetical "best practices" to minimize battery drain.

The results were (surprisingly) virtually identical to those of InjuredAgain. I had no idea that it might be feasible to get **double** the 60-mile range that my indicator usually promises me.

For my 20.6 miles of driving last night, I used 17% of charge. Extrapolating, this shows a potential 121 miles of range?!?

Some miscellany: The dog and I weigh only 150# combined. It was 73°F; no discernible wind. No HVAC. I did use headlights on the return segment. I got even better range 'outbound' than I did coming home (I'd guess about 20% better, judging by the number of miles driven versus the estimated range indicated).

It was a fun experiment. I love this amazing car!
 

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My personal best on a 2014 smartED (Cabrio) is 131 miles w/ about 3% SOC remaining.

ALL surface streets (-40mph), NO Highway speeds, assorted stop/go and signals.
Hilly Northern VA area (I have adjustable regen)

My favorite regen story is about a month after I got "Miss Kitty" I went to a friend's house for dinner/movie.

He lives at the top of a mountain. When I arrived I had less than 20% SOC.
I plugged into his 240v charger (he has a different brand EV) and by the time I was ready to leave I was at 85% SOC.

I waved goodbye, and cranked regen to maximum and coasted down his mountain.

By the time I was off the mountain, I was reading +90% SOC?!?!?
I was pretty impressed.
I've never had the patience to really try to see what I could achieve. I do know though, that 80 miles with good weather and flat lands has been pretty easy for me. Even knowing what I know, I do believe the EPA's 68 miles estimate is spot-on accurate. You don't want to be too optimistic, but at the same time don't want to be too conservative either.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wow! 130 miles by wrumbarger has got to be the all-time record that I've heard of, and that Steven has duplicated the 1+ mile/1% SOC is also very nice. Guess I don't have some super-duper one-off powered by Kryptonite Smart ED though and that kind of makes me sad.

Totally agree this is an amazing vehicle. My wife was honestly pretty skeptical at first but she loves it more with every passing day. Since doing what I did, she's turned into a closet hypermiler to try and outdo me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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No, I left the camber alone. I don't recall the exact values but they were relatively consistent side to side and negative all around. I had pretty significant toe in from the factory both front and rear. Because our Smart is mostly going to be a lower speed vehicle, I had it set to 1/32 toe in both fronts, and had it set to zero toe at the rear, so I'd get a little bit of dynamic toe out under power and at speed. The idea behind that was to help the rear end rotate a bit, and it seems to have reduced some of the relentless understeer with the OEM wheels. It's definitely more stable at highway speeds and transitioning from going straight to turning at high speeds.
How did they set it? Rear toe is not adjustable in the Smart 451.
 

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My person best was 76 miles I think in mine. That was with the fan running, top down/rails out, I had passengers, no "highway" but one road was 55mph...got home with 8% indicated. A friend borrowed the car for a week while his LEAF got a warranty battery replacement. He got around 85 miles per charge with it on For Bragg, where the top speed is 40. I can completely see how these cars, in strictly controlled speed environments, could break 100mi/Charge.
 

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The record over in the German group is 192km or 120 miles if you prefer that.

Just short of the 200km needed to claim the prize in the case of beer challenge.

Keep on trying for that case of real beer. You may have to go over to Germany to claim it, though. And no matter how good the range, the smart won't drive across the Atlantic.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
How did they set it? Rear toe is not adjustable in the Smart 451.


I do not know but this is a very reputable ahop that is a favorite of the high performance driving community and one that I've used multiple times in the past. The handling behavior has changed like it should have for the changes I requested.

I took my Smart there because I was talking to the shop owner as I was getting another vehicle aligned and they said they've done a bunch of Smart Fortwos and have ways of getting them to align. Spacers or washers maybe?

In any case, I'll ask.


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