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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all!

I found a 2014 ED Passion with 25K miles on it. The price is pretty good (~5K). I went on a test drive today for about 4 miles (1.7 miles each way) and noticed that the battery gauge went from 100% to 90%. The car had the heat on at full blast and temperature and it was about 30 degrees out.

The car was a 2014 lease and was bought from an auction in early October. Is it possible that they've destroyed the battery in such a short amount of time? Or is this pretty normal, given the short distance I drove, plus heat. The "Eco" was at 73%, which I guess means I was driving pretty well
 

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MY08 cabrio MY09 cabrio Brabus MY15 ED
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Too many variables in play here.

Short COLD drive with heater on FULL BLAST and a cold battery - could see a 10% drop initially but should level out as operating temperatures are reached.

"Preconditioning" before departure can help.

3 year experience in moderate NC, winter temperatures could reduce range by 15%.

Did this ED have bun warmers - heated seats?
 

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Too many variables in play here.

Short COLD drive with heater on FULL BLAST and a cold battery - could see a 10% drop initially but should level out as operating temperatures are reached.

"Preconditioning" before departure can help.

3 year experience in moderate NC, winter temperatures could reduce range by 15%.

Did this ED have bun warmers - heated seats?
it does have heated seats. I did not realize that until the end of the test drive, however, so I wasn't able to test it without the heater.

I really want a smart ED since it fits my usecase well (8.5 mile commute, everything within 5 miles). do you think this is suspicious or does it seem pretty normal in your experience/reading?
 

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I started out this morning in 30 degree ice all over the car temperatures as well. I have a 14 as well with 9k on the odo and saw the same thing, not sure if this is normal. I do have the bun burners and was using them and only using the defroster to keep the inside of the windshield clear, but turned it off a few miles into the drive. I use the Prestone De-icer on the windshield to get it clear before I left.

MB DNA, what is "Pre-Conditioning"?

Thanks,
H20man
 

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I started out this morning in 30 degree ice all over the car temperatures as well. I have a 14 as well with 9k on the odo and saw the same thing, not sure if this is normal. I do have the bun burners and was using them and only using the defroster to keep the inside of the windshield clear, but turned it off a few miles into the drive. I use the Prestone De-icer on the windshield to get it clear before I left.

MB DNA, what is "Pre-Conditioning"?

Thanks,
H20man
Pre conditioning is a feature where apparently when it (the car) is charging, you can basically set the temperature inside the cabin and it'll heat the cabin to the temperature you set, that way once you're driving you don't have to use the heater as much.
 

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MY08 cabrio MY09 cabrio Brabus MY15 ED
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The "Eco" was at 73%, which I guess means I was driving pretty well
Very unlikely that your 4 mile test drive had much impact on the (retained) Eco score.

Pre conditioning is a feature where apparently when it (the car) is charging, you can basically set the temperature inside the cabin and it'll heat the cabin to the temperature you set, that way once you're driving you don't have to use the heater as much.
brainbree, you have the general idea!

Pre-conditioning is where you preset your departure time to have ED "condition" both the cabin and HV battery while still on "the grid" thus minimizing the drain on range.

And a hearty SCoA welcome to both brainbree and H20man!
 

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Very unlikely that your 4 mile test drive had much impact on the (retained) Eco score.


brainbree, you have the general idea!

Pre-conditioning is where you preset your departure time to have ED "condition" both the cabin and HV battery while still on "the grid" thus minimizing the drain on range.

And a hearty SCoA welcome to both brainbree and H20man!
Thank you Thank you MB DNA! I noticed these settings on the EvAccess App this evening after I plugged it in when I got home. And welcome to brainbree as well!!!
 

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Preconditioning is great, but I've never been able to get it to work using any app. It does work every time setting it using the stalk control. You basically set a departure time and it will either warm up or cool down the smart several minutes before that set time, and maintain it for some period of minutes after the set time. If you want it to cool, you have to press the A/C button to activate it when shutting the car down. I don't know if preconditioning also warms up the battery pack if it is cold - I believe it might and if so, that will help with range.

Having the heat on full blast uses something like 4 kilowatts of electricity. A couple of weeks ago, I did a test where I turned every electrical appliance on its maximum setting and the power used just sitting still was roughly equivalent to the power used when driving on flat ground at 30 MPH or so. One of the compromises with a shorter range vehicle like a smart is that sometimes you have to worry about conserving electricity. Frankly, we rarely do that. We will preferentially use the seat heater over the HVAC, and will sometimes drive a bit more bundled up and with the interior temp a little cooler, but otherwise its so inexpensive to drive, and we rarely ever run out of range in a day, that we just do what's comfortable. Even with the worst consumption, it's $2 in electricity to drive 50 miles. That just can't be beat.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So it sounds like what I experienced isn't anything really unusual. I'm really on the fence to whether or not I should go for the ED I saw. It seemed like it was fine. Any more thoughts? Has anyone had any problems with their ED?
 

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What's to be on the fence about it? It's only $5K so if you don't like it sell it. You might lose a couple of hundred in the resale. But, the joy of not spending gas money on gas should be worth it. You're not talking about a $50k purchase or lease. If the car meets your needs and you want it.....get it!
 

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So it sounds like what I experienced isn't anything really unusual. I'm really on the fence to whether or not I should go for the ED I saw. It seemed like it was fine. Any more thoughts? Has anyone had any problems with their ED?
I believe our smart car sat for the better part of 2 years before we purchased it. What I believe I remember is that the 1st few charges, even though they registered as full charges, did not seem to offer as much range as subsequent charges.

Some battery technologies can also surface charge, where they can present a higher voltage and therefore seemingly a fully charge than they actually have.

Since the battery is the most expensive part of the vehicle, you are right in trying to make sure. What I might suggest is that you go back to the dealership and take it on a more extended drive. See if you can drive it about 20 city miles, which should consume no more than 30 to 35% of the charge, even in cold conditions. Headlights won't really affect the range that much, but using the HVAC system definitely will.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

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What's to be on the fence about it? It's only $5K so if you don't like it sell it. You might lose a couple of hundred in the resale. But, the joy of not spending gas money on gas should be worth it. You're not talking about a $50k purchase or lease. If the car meets your needs and you want it.....get it!
:smartje.zw.zw: That's part of what my decision was based on as well.
 

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I believe our smart car sat for the better part of 2 years before we purchased it. What I believe I remember is that the 1st few charges, even though they registered as full charges, did not seem to offer as much range as subsequent charges.

Some battery technologies can also surface charge, where they can present a higher voltage and therefore seemingly a fully charge than they actually have.

Since the battery is the most expensive part of the vehicle, you are right in trying to make sure. What I might suggest is that you go back to the dealership and take it on a more extended drive. See if you can drive it about 20 city miles, which should consume no more than 30 to 35% of the charge, even in cold conditions. Headlights won't really affect the range that much, but using the HVAC system definitely will.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I was ale to put a clause in the deal I made that it had to pass the inspection at the MB dealership or I could return the car. Now the MB dealer I went to does not do "Buyer's Inspections" they say, but I requested a small list of what I wanted done to the car and it was completed. Lastly, I asked for a "battery test" and I did get that, but I was told in the end it is just a "pass" or "fail" test.

$.02,
H20man
 

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It is more than "pass/fail" test, but the MB service technicians seem to think that the owner has no interest in the report so they don't print it. You should call them back and ask for the specific pack capacity they measured. It should be at least 50 ampere-hour.
 

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There is more to the battery test than pass or fail. They should be able to give you a print out of the results to include the Ah numbers. A look at some of the recent threads about the battery test units will give you some idea of what results you should be able to see.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 13,300 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 3,000 miles
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I believe our smart car sat for the better part of 2 years before we purchased it. What I believe I remember is that the 1st few charges, even though they registered as full charges, did not seem to offer as much range as subsequent charges.

Some battery technologies can also surface charge, where they can present a higher voltage and therefore seemingly a fully charge than they actually have.

Since the battery is the most expensive part of the vehicle, you are right in trying to make sure. What I might suggest is that you go back to the dealership and take it on a more extended drive. See if you can drive it about 20 city miles, which should consume no more than 30 to 35% of the charge, even in cold conditions. Headlights won't really affect the range that much, but using the HVAC system definitely will.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
So I just came back from the "dealer" (really it's just a mechanic whose shop is selling the place). I drove it 18 miles in mixed conditions (definitely not all city, I'd say 50% city and 50% fast streets). When I started it was ~80% (is there a way to know exactly where it's at?) according to the SOC gauge. When I finished it was ~45%. The temperature was 24 degrees F and heated seats were on the entire time with some mixed usage with the heater.

My calculation puts it at an estimate of 52 miles for the full charge, which is pretty good compared to the 58 miles rated charge, however it sounds like 58 miles is pretty lowball and people get above that pretty easily.

Thoughts? I'd told the guy I'd probably buy it since it meets my needs and it seems like other people have similar ranges, but I figure I'd check-in here.
 

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So I just came back from the "dealer" (really it's just a mechanic whose shop is selling the place). I drove it 18 miles in mixed conditions (definitely not all city, I'd say 50% city and 50% fast streets). When I started it was ~80% (is there a way to know exactly where it's at?) according to the SOC gauge. When I finished it was ~45%. The temperature was 24 degrees F and heated seats were on the entire time with some mixed usage with the heater.

My calculation puts it at an estimate of 52 miles for the full charge, which is pretty good compared to the 58 miles rated charge, however it sounds like 58 miles is pretty lowball and people get above that pretty easily.

Thoughts? I'd told the guy I'd probably buy it since it meets my needs and it seems like other people have similar ranges, but I figure I'd check-in here.
The rated range is just a figure that is based on numerous factors involving potential heater/a-c, lights, highway conditions, etc. The previous generation 451 was rated for 68 miles, the current generation 453 is rated for 58 miles. The 453 smart EV easily gets me more range than the 451 it replaces under every scenario I've tried, so clearly the factors used to rate the later generation involve more battery degradation and/or heavier use. Maybe colder weather or hilly driving or battery performance years from now? Not sure.

I do know that cold weather will definitely hamper the range. Primarily in the Los Angeles area with my smart electric car, it's warm out here so range is much more easily predictable.
 

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it does have heated seats. I did not realize that until the end of the test drive, however, so I wasn't able to test it without the heater.

I really want a smart ED since it fits my usecase well (8.5 mile commute, everything within 5 miles). do you think this is suspicious or does it seem pretty normal in your experience/reading?
My wife drives 54 km each way to and from work in a Canadian winter. Which with a 451 ED is pushing it. She does charge at work. In the dead of winter that uses about 60% of the battery.

You won't have any issues with a 17 mile (28 km) round trip in 14F weather.

The seat heaters are great. I'd recommend installing a set of after market seat heater pads under the rubber floor mats if you find your feet get cold.

For us the car will pay for itself in the savings from not buying gasoline.
 

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So I just came back from the "dealer" (really it's just a mechanic whose shop is selling the place). I drove it 18 miles in mixed conditions (definitely not all city, I'd say 50% city and 50% fast streets). When I started it was ~80% (is there a way to know exactly where it's at?) according to the SOC gauge. When I finished it was ~45%. The temperature was 24 degrees F and heated seats were on the entire time with some mixed usage with the heater.

My calculation puts it at an estimate of 52 miles for the full charge, which is pretty good compared to the 58 miles rated charge, however it sounds like 58 miles is pretty lowball and people get above that pretty easily.

Thoughts? I'd told the guy I'd probably buy it since it meets my needs and it seems like other people have similar ranges, but I figure I'd check-in here.
A couple of days ago, I drove twenty miles each way with about 18 of those miles on the freeway, at an actual 65 MPH/indicated 69 MPH. That 40 miles in temps of around 35 degrees reduced the SOC from 88% to about 17%. Headlights and a seat heater were on, but the HVAC was set to just one click above the lowest position, just to take the chill off the air. The cabin was pretty cool, more than I would have preferred, but I wanted to ensure I had enough range.

There are at least two things at work. In colder temps, the battery can't be charged quite as fully and you can't get as much energy out of it. So with that, and that I believe the ability to charge and discharge will become a little better with more frequent use, I'd guess the battery in the car you looked at is okay.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I ended up buying the ED. hopefully it's ok (it has 10 months left and the smart center I called gave me the service history which was pretty decent). the car is so small, haha! now to figure out how to drive this thing in the snow.
 
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