[Kevin Rowell]

Well. the good state of Arkansas came to the conclusion that a pure EV doesn't pay fuel taxes used for road repairs. They apparently threw a dart at a board and came up with $200 fee above and beyond the normal ICE charges. For me this works out to me paying the equivalent of $1 per gallon gas tax, while ICE owners pay $0.265 cents per gallon. PHEV & Hybrids get a $100 fee. I've heard everything from "That's what you would be paying if your were driving a gas vehicle.". Might be true if a drove a 9 mpg pickup, but I used to drive a 2009 smart fortwo and got 40 mpg. to "Well if you can afford a tesla, $200 extra every year shouldn't bother you", I can't and it would. I bought a $7,500 used car and those $200 per year will add up. I don't mind paying my fair share in road taxes, but 400% more is approaching on punitive. Curious what others are paying and where are they. Also if anyone has any thoughts on suggestions to make this a little more fair, feel free to chime in. Our if you think I am out of bounds and shouldn't be complaining, feel free to say so.

 

[Kevin Rowell]

Arkansas: Cost to register same fees as an ICE, with an additional $200 per year. Hybrids get an extra $100

 

[sokoloff]

$130 extra here in NC, just up from $100 a couple of years ago. Sure I'd rather not pay it, but I see the reasoning behind it.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 19,500 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 15,500 miles

 

[Kevin Rowell]

I see the reasoning as well, and have no problem on paying my fair share. Just at $200 a year for 1 sub 15,000 mile car isn't well thought out, in my mind anyways.

 

[Yinzer]

In Pennsylvania there is no extra fee - plus there is a $1750 rebate for the purchases of EV's - which even applies to used EV's purchases if you live certain air-quality non-attainment counties - like my county.

I notice that these southern states that charge the extra fee do not have any such EV incentive program. Figures.

Considering the rarity of EV's in places like Arkansas or N. Carolina (except maybe Asheville I guess) then surely this extra fee is not really about offsetting the non-collection of the gasoline taxes. Sure, there may be a time when EV's become prevalent enough to require alternate funding but for now we are still in the incentivize early adoption phase. So, these extra fees are is almost certainly a political-cultural thing, if you know what I mean....

 

[Kevin Rowell]

In Pennsylvania there is no extra fee - plus there is a $1750 rebate for the purchases of EV's - which even applies to used EV's purchases if you live certain air-quality non-attainment counties - like my county.

I notice that these southern states that charge the extra fee do not have any such EV incentive program. Figures.

Considering the rarity of EV's in places like Arkansas or N. Carolina (except maybe Asheville I guess) then surely this extra fee is not really about offsetting the non-collection of the gasoline taxes. Sure, there may be a time when EV's become prevalent enough to require alternate funding but for now we are still in the incentivize early adoption phase. So, these extra fees are is almost certainly a political-cultural thing, if you know what I mean....

You are on to something. No incentives here. My power company (Entergy) offers a $250 rebate when you install a L2 charger. I installed one, submitted my paper work. The reply, "Sorry that program isn't valid for Arkansas customers" LOL, yup we are an oil state!

 

[rfernatt]

In Pennsylvania there is no extra fee - plus there is a $1750 rebate for the purchases of EV's - which even applies to used EV's purchases if you live certain air-quality non-attainment counties - like my county.

I notice that these southern states that charge the extra fee do not have any such EV incentive program. Figures.

Considering the rarity of EV's in places like Arkansas or N. Carolina (except maybe Asheville I guess) then surely this extra fee is not really about offsetting the non-collection of the gasoline taxes. Sure, there may be a time when EV's become prevalent enough to require alternate funding but for now we are still in the incentivize early adoption phase. So, these extra fees are is almost certainly a political-cultural thing, if you know what I mean....

Maybe not for too much longer in PA: https://www.penncapital-star.com/blog/electric-vehicle-drivers-in-pa-would-pay-250-year-fee-under-advancing-state-house-bill/

WV charges $200. The main problem with these fees are that they are fixed. By it's nature, the fuel tax for ICE is variable depending on how much you drive. If you're a granny that drives an ICE 2,000 miles per year, you pay very little in fuel tax. If you're the same granny with an EV, you pay what the average ICE driver pays for 13,000 miles or so. So, it's regressive. If it were mileage based, it could be fair. Low range EVs are especially punished since they don't typically rack up a lot of miles. But, states would need a new mechanism to capture odometer readings if they don't already do so (WV does not) and a group of people to administer it. So, extra cost and effort on that side. We might make it fair and it costs more with state personnel and overhead.

And, I do believe EV owners should pay their fair share in road taxes. I certainly wouldn't want to give the opposition a talking point about how "entitled EV owners are not paying their share while the downtrodden masses are paying for all the road maintenance!" The issue is with computing what is fair and how best to do it. If road taxes are used to maintain interstate rest areas (I believe they are), then I'd also like to see the state invest in basic EV services at those facilities. They can charge for the electricity, but make the service available and maintain it. An expensive parking meter and tickets could do the trick to avoid complicated payment systems.

If you drive an average number of miles in an average efficiency ICE in a year, then $200 is about right in WV. Ironically, long range EVs like Tesla owners are getting a great deal if they drive a lot of miles. Buddy of mine has done 40K on his Model 3 in less than 2 years, so he's way ahead. Here's the calculation that I ran for WV:

This source says average American non-commercial drivers put 13,474 miles on their vehicle annually.
This source says the average economy for new US cars is 24.7 mpg (if older vehicles were included, it would make the efficiency figure lower and therefore the amount of taxes higher).
This source indicates that the WV gasoline tax rate is $0.357/gallon.

If you take those figure and run the numbers, you get 13,474 / 24.7 = 545.5 gallons of fuel each year for an average new gas powered ICE non-commercial vehicle.

545.5 gallons of fuel x $0.357/gallon WV state tax rate = $194.75 in state fuel taxes each year which is close to the $200 fee.

This does not include federal fuel taxes at $.184/gallon which would be another $100.37 for average annual miles and efficiency.

 

[Kevin Rowell]

If I read your source correctly, the $.357 per gallon is for aviation gas. ICE gas is $.205 . Your tax cost would be $111.82. But, point taken. Overall I agree.

Here in Arkansas, and Maine where I used to live you must declare your mileage every year when you register. So, in my case the DMV does have the data. Having written software for the DMV here, I can tell you it wouldn't be hard to make that line a calculated fee vs a flat fee. But, the hours of meetings to do that is a cost. I'm surprised your state doesn't capture that data. Perhaps WV picks it up during a vehicle inspection process. One good thing about Arkansas, we got rid of those.

Great points!

 

[Tiredwalker]

Bought a used 2015 ED recently and only had to pay $4/year (got 2 years worth) here in AZ.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

[rfernatt]

If I read your source correctly, the $.357 per gallon is for aviation gas. ICE gas is $.205 . Your tax cost would be $111.82. But, point taken. Overall I agree.

Here in Arkansas, and Maine where I used to live you must declare your mileage every year when you register. So, in my case the DMV does have the data. Having written software for the DMV here, I can tell you it wouldn't be hard to make that line a calculated fee vs a flat fee. But, the hours of meetings to do that is a cost. I'm surprised your state doesn't capture that data. Perhaps WV picks it up during a vehicle inspection process. One good thing about Arkansas, we got rid of those.

Great points!

I'm pretty sure the state motor vehicle fuel tax for WV gasoline is $.357/gallon using the combined rate shown. Here's a couple other sources:

Gas Tax Rates | 2019 State Fuel Excise Taxes | Tax Foundation

How high are gas taxes in your state? New 2019 map compares state fuel excise taxes and state gas tax rates across the country. Learn more about fuel taxes.

taxfoundation.org

Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But, yeah, I have no problem paying it, just wish it were more aligned with actual road usage.

 

[Kevin Rowell]

That sums it up for me too, as long as the load is fair. Looking at the other sources Arkansas is wrong in each one. In fairness before getting hit with this fee, which kicked in 1 week prior to me registering, I had no clue of the tax per gallon. Aside from knowing New Jersey always had the cheapest gas, but you weren't allowed to pump it yourself!

 

[NW453]

Oregon ~ $0

 

[MB DNA]

In this infancy stage of EV adoption, no need for odometer readings especially in NC. Tax could easily be a "fair" tax by simply ratcheting it to HV battery capacity/range. There is no way that ED should be charged the same flat tax as a Tesla.

And then if you want to really see a cluster, check out the irregularities in fees charged to hybrids. Yet a fuel stingy ICE with nearly the same or better MPG runs without any surcharge???

But then again so many of these "decisions" have hidden agendas . . .

 

[Kevin Rowell]

In this infancy stage of EV adoption, no need for odometer readings especially in NC. Tax could easily be a "fair" tax by simply ratcheting it to HV battery capacity/range. There is no way that ED should be charged the same flat tax as a Tesla.

And then if you want to really see a cluster, check out the irregularities in fees charged to hybrids. Yet a fuel stingy ICE with nearly the same or better MPG runs without any surcharge???

But then again so many of these "decisions" have hidden agendas . . .

Interesting. I haven't thought of tying it to battery capacity. Arkansas does have different charges for cars based on weight. That might be worth proposing to the numerous legislatures who clamored on to co-sponsor this bill. Of course that requires someone once a year to keep up with that. Oh, wait we already have a law for reporting alternate fuel usage, should fall under that nicely.

I read somewhere a state , maybe Ohio, was going to create a sliding scale for fuel efficient ICE vehicles. Higher the MPG higher the tax.

The hybrids are nuts. I was seriously looking at the mitsubishi PHEV, besides more money than I want to drop on a vehicle, over all it was comparable to my Renegade in cost to run. Yet, it would be hit with $100 in Arkansas.

This has turned out to be a great thread, thanks everyone for kicking in your helpful thoughts & experience!

--Kevin
KR1TEN

 

[Yinzer]

Note that road wear and tear on pavements is heavily dependent on vehicle weight. If I recall from pavement design days, it takes thousands of cars to put the same wear and tear on a pavement as a single truck. As far as average mileage, I live in the compact metropolitan area and have never put more than about 5000-6000 miles per year in in any car. The Smart got the most miles on any car we've had for a couple years when my wife pit about 85 miles per year. It's much less than that now.

Funny to see supposed "tax cutting" Republicans falling over themselves to get this tax as high has possible. They even want to impose an extra $50 fee on electric motorcycles. Thankfully, there is nothing on the title that shows that my scooters are electric.

...And I just found out that I was supposed to have been be paying an "alternative fuel tax" for the ED with my state tax returns - based on the car's actual electric consumption. (My EVSE records kwh usage). The proposed registration fee will replace this and be much higher than this tax would be - especially for the low kwh I put in the Smart.

 

[Kevin Rowell]

I think I've seen this before, when Politicians and judges try to regulate tech they don't understand.

 

[Yinzer]

I think I've seen this before, when Politicians and judges try to regulate tech they don't understand.

It is not about regulating tech they don't understand. There is really nothing "high tech" about electric cars in themselves - some of the earliest mass produced cars were electric (Detroit Electric in 1907).

While some kind of road-revenue stream is going to be needed as EVs substantially replace ICVs, the excess and punitive amounts imposed regardless of actual road usage (an early version of Illinois legislation for this fee was $1000 per year - I'm not making this up!) and the greatest support for the highest amounts coming from a certain political party that is otherwise "anti-tax". It is obvious that this fee originates from a low-level-brain-stem association of electric cars with "the global warming hoax" ("GWH") and so this unfair tax is a kind of passive-aggressive (and infantile) way of stopping action on global warming.

More specifically, this legislation comes from the "American Legislative Exchange Council" (ALEC) that provides prepackaged so-called "pro-free-market" legislation wording to the states. ALEC is run by the Koch Brothers (now just singular as one of them died) who's portfolios are heavy in the oil industry.

As for me - if this fee gets passed at the full $250 amount and Gov. Wolf does not veto it I will find a way to evade it.

(Note: sorry for getting "political" but considering that this thread is about tax policy so it is hard not to be "political". At any rate, even just talking about the weather these days is "political" so we can hardly avoid it entirely.)

 

[Kevin Rowell]

No need to be sorry. I wanted a to create a discussion and exchange of thoughts. Everyone may not agree with everybody. But the diversity among our thoughts creates a much better feel for this. I plan on taking a run at our politicians asking for a fairer version of this. Lot's of ideas I hadn't thought off. At least once a week someone asks me about my front plate, and when I explain it, the answer is always "That's stupid"

 

[jimsokoloff]

New Fees on Hybrid and Electric Vehicles

www.ncsl.org

 

[Kevin Rowell]

That's one of the problems so many maps with outdated information on them.