Smart Car of America Forum banner

21 - 40 of 320 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
Question.... Why?

Answer... Because introducing water into the engine will allow me to run higher boost pressure without detonation and higher boost pressure will increase torque and torque is very fun.. it's always about torque... and.. of course... horsepower... COW power...!

And no... as I read somewhere.. we are not combusting the hydrogen in H2O... =P.. Water is not a very good fuel... the higher pressure and increased density of the mixture is what makes power...


I fully engineered a custom water / meth injection setup for the smart car and during the engineering process I had a few decisions I had to make, one of which was the placement of the actual water injection nozzle and if I was going to opt for or opt out of the solenoid in the system.

The solenoid in a water / meth injection system could be optional or required. If the nozzle is mounted after the throttle body it's required as the vacuum from the engine would suck in the water / meth mixture when you don't want it to, so in that case a solenoid would cut off that connection.

If the water tank is mounted above the intake it is also required so water doesn't just flow into the engine by gravity fed.

When the nozzle is mounted before the throttle body it is optional and the benefit is what you'll see in the video below. In my case I have the nozzle mounted after the throttle body plate so it is required but I got the solenoid mainly was to allow an "instant" on and off action since that's what I care more about then having the pump turn on and off to regulate the water injection.

Benefits?

-Don't have to spray water into the throttle body so no corrosion issue.
-Highest air velocity is at the throttle body.
-Be the first one to machine and modify the smart car's throttle body =P..
-Using a solenoid allows me not to have to use a freakin CHECK valve...if you want to know why and where it's used.. ask and I'll tell...


Lots of calculations were made to determine the nozzle size I used in my setup. Factors included...

-HP of the engine when the water starts to inject to the MAX HP the engine is making. (The max delivery of the water should be at high load... low to mid rpm ranges and then tapers off where load is less at highest rpm)
-Water to fuel ratio (between 15 to 1 and 25 to 1), also varies depending on your water to meth mixture ratio as well. Water to fuel ratio should be based on WEIGHT and not Volume.
-Pressure of the pump output.
-The pressure at which the system will activate and when it will shut off.
-The number of nozzles in the setup.
-Nozzle size and flow rates at specific water pressure.

And here's some.. visual stimulation... ;) Click on the youtube logo and watch it on it's own page for max effect!


Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Okay so I guess the last post wasn't interesting enough to generate any replies... lets try this one...:







 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
Larry , should have put a boring bar to it first
Would be a perfect time to up that 1 liter :cool:
I'm one step ahead of you... ;)

You know people typically oversize and rebuild their engine like.. 10 thou or.. 20 or.. usually max .030 over?

Well... my engine is 83 thousands OVER sized.... yes.. .084"!

I'm hoping your face looks something like... this -> :eek:

Hehe.... stock engine is 60.76 cubic inches mines is... 64.4 cubic inches, I gained 3.64 cubic inches out of the already small engine.. a 6% increase.. :cool: Hope your proud of me! haha.. j/k

Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
The black on the cylinder walls says to me the bore job was required and not just for S&Gs!
Actually the cylinder walls on 1 and 3 are perfectly normal, maybe it's the flash or something but they are normal if you take your engine apart. The top ring obviously doesn't go all the way to the top so you see a part of the cylinder that looks different on the very top like... 3/8". You can still see the hone on it so my cylinders are healthy :)...

P.S. What's S&G? And I wont deny that the bore job was "required..." haha... no comment on that at the moment ;)

Larry
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
319 Posts
Actually the cylinder walls on 1 and 3 are perfectly normal, maybe it's the flash or something but they are normal if you take your engine apart. The top ring obviously doesn't go all the way to the top so you see a part of the cylinder that looks different on the very top like... 3/8". You can still see the hone on it so my cylinders are healthy :)...

P.S. What's S&G? And I wont deny that the bore job was "required..." haha... no comment on that at the moment ;)

Larry
It's kind of hard to tell from a photo about the cylinder so it was just a guess on my part. LOL

Are you also going to fill in some of the water jacket to beef the block up a bit or no?

S&Gs = Sh*ts and Giggles! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
It's kind of hard to tell from a photo about the cylinder so it was just a guess on my part. LOL

Are you also going to fill in some of the water jacket to beef the block up a bit or no?

S&Gs = Sh*ts and Giggles! :D
Actually now that I looked at the photos I posted, your right... that's weird, the black spots on the walls is.. just the angle of reflection I guess... here's a picture close up before I gave it to the machine shop, still not the best angle to prove that the black spots in the photos above are just the lighting and angle but you can still see my bore is nice :)



Personally I think the engine block is strong enough that's why I'm not going to do anything that could reduce the cooling yet make the block stronger. I'm installing a.. crazy.. 500 dollar electric thermostat unit that uses... a remote thermostat housing that has a valve connected to a stepper motor that is controlled by it's own ECU with different temp "pills" I can plug into it's ECU to control the temp to whatever I set it too and keep the temp accurate to the DEGREE....

It has it's own ambient air temp sensor, it controls the factory cooling fan and varies how much water is circulated in and out of the engine block.. lol... =X...

I'll take a picture of it tomorrow and post it up to show you :)

Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Larry, this is a very interesting thread...thanks for taking the Smart car mod thing to the next level! Looking forward to seeing this crazy thermostat.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,763 Posts
Can't wait. I wanna see!

Are there pictures now?
How about NOW?
I can't hold my breath much longer. I'm turning purple!:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,029 Posts
...is all about *F or *C...whatever scale you use...
...is that why we call it "thermal dynamic efficiency"...

jetfuel...is it hot here or what
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
319 Posts
Actually now that I looked at the photos I posted, your right... that's weird, the black spots on the walls is.. just the angle of reflection I guess... here's a picture close up before I gave it to the machine shop, still not the best angle to prove that the black spots in the photos above are just the lighting and angle but you can still see my bore is nice :)



Personally I think the engine block is strong enough that's why I'm not going to do anything that could reduce the cooling yet make the block stronger. I'm installing a.. crazy.. 500 dollar electric thermostat unit that uses... a remote thermostat housing that has a valve connected to a stepper motor that is controlled by it's own ECU with different temp "pills" I can plug into it's ECU to control the temp to whatever I set it too and keep the temp accurate to the DEGREE....

It has it's own ambient air temp sensor, it controls the factory cooling fan and varies how much water is circulated in and out of the engine block.. lol... =X...

I'll take a picture of it tomorrow and post it up to show you :)

Larry
The close up photo shows the bore a bit better but... I still can't see the thrust side of the bore very clearly. :( So i'll take your word for it since you were right there.

I was asking about using HardBlok more for keeping lower block more rigid since I'm assuming with the larger pistons you'll be at the high end of the RPM range most of the time.

Link for those that are not familiar with HardBlok: HardBlok Water Jacket Filler - Increase Horsepower For High Performance Engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Are there pictures now?
How about NOW?
I can't hold my breath much longer. I'm turning purple!:(
You can relieve yourself now.. :) (Damn this is like car porn... haha)





A little history... I bought this unit a couple years ago with the intentions of using it on my DeTomaso Pantera along with the other 75,000 dollar upgrades in parts to modernize the car. When I was buying those parts, it was just purely going for the best of the best without any regardes to cost that's how I ended up with a 500 freakin dollar electric thermostat =P... That car has been sitting waiting to be finished but mean while the water opening on this unit is smaller then what I would have liked if I was using it on the big V8 (would have bought two units instead), but it is perfect if not over kill for the SMART engine!

Sadly you can't buy this anymore so I couldn't buy two to use it on the Pantera, but I can definitely use it on the smart car :)

In the pictures you see the wiring harness, the diverter valve inside the electric thermostat housing. The Air temp sensor, different temperature "pills", water temp sensor, and the electronic control unit (the brain).

I have to test the stock thermostat to see when it starts to open, but based on observation on the past, the SMART typically keeps the temp around 190 degree F* with the fans activated at 215 F* and turns off at 200 F*.

When I get the car back together I will be datalogging the car to make sure and see when the car's ignition timing and other stuff changes as the water temp comes up to operating temp. If all is well I hope the ECU will consider 165 degree as full operating temp as that's what I would like to set the temp too. This is to minimize denotation and increase boost, timing etc... Worst comes to worst I can always "trick" the ECU into seeing 10 or 20 degrees hotter by messing with resistors and the factory water temp sensor :)

I can't wait to get this into the smart car and hope you are all excited and appreciating this as much as I am at the moment!!! :)

P.S. About that block filler, due to the design of the smart block, I would have to fill up half the block with this stuff to actually make it substantially stronger... ;( That would decrease the ability to cool the cylinders down the way how I like to... well the bore isn't that much larger and there's still a good amount of meat left :) We'll see, I'm not ruling it out as an option just maybe there's a better approach to using the product specifically with the smart engine :).

Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Impressive!

I just figured it's about time I start a thread just for my own moo car and my journey on keeping my status as the fastest most powerful smart car around... with retaining the factory engine and block :)

Since I posted this picture below, this could be like a mini blog.. but more to let people who are interested to chat and try to figure out what happened and what are my intentions and what the heck am I up too ;)....

<img src="http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=11252" alt="Moomobile's Vicious Powerplant..." />

Larry
/
Now what are those little shiny doo-hickies for?:eek:
 
21 - 40 of 320 Posts
Top