Smart Car of America Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys and girls, I have a set of wheels that I want to put on a 450. The current offset is 25 front and 22 rear. Can anyone help me figure out what size shims are required for centering? Thanks Dan T.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
You DO NOT want to use wheel shims with 3 lug wheels!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Personally I wouldn't run shims or spacers of any sort on any car. Just asking for bad things to happen. Pony up and buy wheels that fit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,536 Posts
Evilution has all the factory wheel widths and offsets, with that information you should be able to sort it out yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,297 Posts
Nothing wrong with using wheel spacers providing they pilot correctly (hub concentric) on the axle flange and wheel... Use of proper length lug bolts must be considered too.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I looked at Evilution and could not find the stock offset of the hubs. If I knew that I would be able to figure it out. The wheels I am buying are not on the listing. I think shims are ok if the wheel is seated on a/the hub flange. I'll machine them myself if I have to. I'll machine the wheel if I have to to get a good seat. Just need the stock offset.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Ok, just trying to learn something here. Maybe the information is right there in front of me and I'm missing it. Does this diagram say that the hub faces are stock 29 offset in the front and -1 in the rear? I understand the center line in the front wants to be in the center of the turning point but what makes the center-line in the rear? By these numbers I would be unavoidably 4mm off in the front with a wheel offset of 25 and no shim, and need a 23mm shim in the rear? But to my thinking the rear can go to whatever fits and looks good being that these don't turn. Would this be correct?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
Nothing wrong with using wheel spacers providing they pilot correctly (hub concentric) on the axle flange and wheel... Use of proper length lug bolts must be considered too.
Lot's of folks say that. I won't argue. It works IF everything is done right. If you use a high quality spacer. If you maintain things the way you should.

When dealing with most folks though it brings to mind an old Kenny Rogers song, "You picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel!"
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I was looking at the diagram on the page you sent linked us to. Is that showing the stock hub face offset?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,191 Posts
If you use wedges in the rear you can get by with a smaller spacer. I am running 20mm spacers in the rear with wedges and 451 wheels. Without wedges you will have to run around 30-35mm spacers. As far as spacers not being safe, BS. I have run spacers on a number of cars with out problems. I have been running Eibach spacers on my smart for 2 1/2 years now. I have spacers on our Jeep on all four wheels with out problems including off roading. Keep spacers torqued and locktighted on the Jeep (separate bolts for spacer to hub than wheel to spacer. If you have never used spacers, you aren't qualified to comment on the safety, internet experts, SMH.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,536 Posts
For the OP go to the link I provided. Find an OE front wheel that is the same width, you need a similar offset and can run the tire listed with no issues. Do the same for the rear. It need not be anymore complicated than that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
Ok, just trying to learn something here. Maybe the information is right there in front of me and I'm missing it. Does this diagram say that the hub faces are stock 29 offset in the front and -1 in the rear? I understand the center line in the front wants to be in the center of the turning point but what makes the center-line in the rear? By these numbers I would be unavoidably 4mm off in the front with a wheel offset of 25 and no shim, and need a 23mm shim in the rear? But to my thinking the rear can go to whatever fits and looks good being that these don't turn. Would this be correct?
In general, the centerline of the wheel is more or less in vertical alignment with the centerline of the wheel or hub bearing. On most vehicles the front wheel centerline is inboard of the point at which the steering axis intersects the road surface. This is so the reaction to the additional drag of a low tire will counteract the tendency to pull to the side with the low tire. The forces are supposed to offset each other. More or less. There are always exceptions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
As far as spacers not being safe, BS. If you have never used spacers, you aren't qualified to comment on the safety, internet experts, SMH.

If this is pointed my direction I'll reply. Yes I don't and haven't run them myself. At least not since the '70s when I used chevy wheel adaptors on my VW.

However I have on more than one occasion had to do the wrenching to replace broken lugs on 4x4's that ran them and didn't maintain them properly. Once it was trailside and a real PIA for the other folks on the trip. As I said before: yes they can work fine provided you use quality spacers and do your part and keep up with the maintainance and do it more often than you regularly would.

Most people don't even change their oil when it needs to be. So I don't think a word of caution is out of line here. Twice the lugs to maintain and keep torqued. Or extra long lugs or bolts that have extra leverage on them. If someone actually went to the effort to get the right parts.

However I still consider them a Band-aid. It's always better to have the proper wheel in my opinion. Especially when you consider that high quality spacers can get very close to the price of middle of the road wheels.

When you've blown a full day of wheeling sitting in the mud on a hillside pulling hubs and brakes off somebody elses 4x4 andthen running to town 30 miles away to get parts and then putting it all back together. All because some knucklehead was too cheap to buy the right wheels or take care of the junk he was using. Then you can tell me I'm not qualified to comment. Unfortunatly most of the folks who take this route really don't understand what they are getting into. They just listened to internet experts who told them go ahead and just get spacers. Then slap them on and forget them.

Last winter I had to do a 10 miles detour to get around a car on a bridge. Kid in a slammed ricer. Hit a bridge seam hard at speed. Broke both front spacers. Dropped the fron of the car on the ground with both wheels stuffed up in the fenders. Had the bridge on this backroad tied up for a couple of hours. Wrong spacers? Cheap Chinese spacers. Loose lugs? Who knows!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,191 Posts
However I still consider them a Band-aid. It's always better to have the proper wheel in my opinion. Especially when you consider that high quality spacers can get very close to the price of middle of the road wheels.

!
It's always better to use correct wheels/parts. However, this is about a 450, not imported into the US and has almost 0 aftermarket support. Wheels for a 450 are rare and expensive. The 451 wheels are plentiful (in comparison) and much cheaper. They fit as long as you use spacers in the rear. The OP is experiencing one of the problems all 450 owners get. We make do with what we can. If all the OP had to do was run down to Pep Boys and buy some wheels, I'm sure he would happily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
Barney, understood.

SM I'm still learning about these cars. Unlike certain machines that I know upside down and backwards. My Smart has been good unlike several new cars I have bought. As a gearhead I'm actually trying to enjoy being a normal person with this car and just drive it without digging too deep into it's DNA for a change. It's been many years since I was able to do that. I'll worry about nuts and bolts when I need to. I did not realize that this aspect of the 450 was so different from the 451. But spacers and 3 lug wheels still give me the willy's.

Peace, Squatch
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top