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Wheely..... another conversation ?

9K views 61 replies 11 participants last post by  OliverB 
#1 ·
Yep. I am at the point in my 2014 451's refresh where it's now about the wheels and tires. I want four stock steel 15 inch 5.5 wide rims those will be shod with 175/65 r 15 or 185/65 r 15 tires up front and 205/60 r 15 tires on the rear. My current Six spoke 15 inch 4.5 wide front and 5.5 wide rears have 165/60 r 15 front and 195/60 r 15 rear tires. Will get bends repaired. I believe a second set of rears will eventually be bought I just do not have the space for extra rims right now. I would like the second set of rears to go with 205/60 r 15 also and move the 195/50 set up front then on the six spoke 4.5 fronts do something skinny with a spacer some thing like a 155/70 r 15.

Now those are all mental wants. I now have to crunch all the numbers including price points. But it is a "wheel" thought now.
 
#2 ·
Those are very large diameter tires. Just want to make sure they will clear, and be aware that they will cause your speedometer to read lower than actual speed. On my 2015 ED, the speedometer is 6% fast, but the tire sizes you're contemplating are over 7% larger than stock up front (which was a 155/60-15) and 8.5% larger than stock in the rear (which was a 175/55-15). That stagger, though, should be roughly within the range which will not cause problems.

Good luck!
 
#3 ·
My, from factory package, wheels are 165/60 15 front and 195/50 15 rear. Yes I am attempting to put more meat between my seat warmed rear end and any unavoidable pot hole. The desired dream will at some point meet the functional reality but it's where I will start. I read all the tire post in the forms and see several owners have gotten some meaty tires to function. I will run the steel wheels black with chrome trim rings. Then collect hub caps like shoes to change the look, to suit my mood of the day. This car is just pure fun.
 
#6 ·
I just bought new 15X6.5 wheels for Max. I bought Solar brand tires because I like the tread pattern on them. I got them in a really large size, 215/70R15. I am sure they will fit the back but not totally sure about the front. May have to use spacers on the front. If that doesn't work I will just buy 2 215/65R15's and keep the 2 70's for replacement on the back. How do I plan to fit such a large tire? I ordered the Daystar lift kit. But I ordered it in July and am still waiting on it to arrive. Called Smart Madness and the Smart kit is on national backorder and is supposed to be in stock by mid October. But I have also heard from sources that Daystar is very lax on delivering on time. If you order a kit from Ebay be sure that the person selling it has it in stock before ordering. I have 2 damaged Design 5 chrome wheels, one on the driver back and one on the passenger front. The chrome was peeling anyway so it was time for new wheels. If my kit would only come. That is my solution for all the potholes that rattle my car, but doesn't seem to phase my truck or the wifes car. Hopefully no more damaged rims, corrected speedometer, and better handling to a point.DCO
 
#10 · (Edited)
Purple [emoji208]

Thanks chief! There are formulas out there, I'm sure InjuredAgain would know of them, that let you calculate exactly the difference/error. Just too lazy to figure it out on my own, also partly because smart starts off OFF.

Good to see you around again. When I started here I saw a lot of your good info, and now that I'm back to being smartless, I'm glad to see you around again.
 
#13 ·
With my bottom line for daily NYC use being to soften the shockwave of potholes. Tires seem to help in this regard. And tweaking what fits becomes a balancing act. Money mater's and makes me think about just spacing the front tires and holding serve with my current 165/60 15 front 195/50 15 rear tires until springtime. I know I will find the right option for both the look road feel and comfort I am looking for. I take real interest in what others are running. The question next is about ride harshness.
 
#14 ·
Those are sizes that came with my smart. The tire pressure recommended was 29 PSI front and 36 PSI rear. I’m sure a plethora of opinions on what pressures could be run are out there, but I ran them at recommended. Didn’t reach 15k mikes before my dad wrecked it, unfortunately if it had been taken to another shop I think it would have been saved, so I can’t say if the tread wear showed any signs of being off, must have been pretty decent.
 
#15 ·
I’m using 185/60/15 on all four corners and I love them. Interestingly enough, no rubbing. I think this is because my front wheels are 5.5” inches wide plus the design of the tyres I have. I bet I could have gone up to 185/65/15, but oh well. My next tyre upgrade will be All Terrain anyway. ;)
 
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#25 ·
Update on my own comment! Okay, so the 185/60/15s do rub, specifically on the outside panel. You can't tell unless you're actually looking for it. Still, these tyres are the best this car has ever had.
 
#18 ·
Yeah, well, if it weren't for a typo, I would!

It was supposed to be 185/60-15 and not 185/65-15. The 165/65-15 is 5% larger than the stock (for my car at least) 155/60-15, and the 185/60-15 is 5.1% larger than the stock 175/55-15. However, I don't know if there are any single tire models that will have both of those sizes though.
 
#19 ·
Well, in my defense, I did wait about a day, to see if you may have made a mistake and correct it. But, I actually wasn't sure if you may have new information on the smart traction control to actually recommend those sizes.

(My intentions were good, honest. Otherwise I could have posted a response much much earlier....)
 
#20 ·
#22 ·
Well I actually cleared out a couple days from my work schedule to put the lift on over monday and tuesday 11-6 & 11-7. But as usual something always foils my plans. The other front hub bearing went bad on my Dodge Dakota truck and I could not drive it. So I had to dig Max out of mothballs (Hadn't driven him or started him on over a month). He started right up. As I write this it is raining down outside in buckets and poor Max is sitting in the driveway getting soaked because the Dakota truck is under the patio blocking the garage. I hope to have the lift on Max done by the weekend. The rear should be easy because everything is easily accessible. I have had the rear completely disassembled any way when I dropped the engine last year. But the front may be a bit of a problem. The instructions for the lift kit specify to remove the front clip and I do not want to do that. I installed LED lights in my side rocker panels,5 per side, and there was almost no clearance between them and the tridion, so removing the rockers to remove the front clip would be problematic for me. I'm hoping I can just unbolt the tops of the fenders at the passion emblems and pull the tops of the fenders out far enough to allow me access to the tops of the struts. I will be able to document the whole process and have found a picture hosting service, thank you Miss Mercedes!. So I will be able to upload pics again. Got several projects in the works. As for pics on all my old posts, I don't know how to ressurect them. DCO
 
#24 ·
Yes that is my rim sizes
I have decided to move the rears to the front shod with the existing 195/50 15 tires. And the front 5.5 inches to the rear Where they will be shod with 205/50 15 tires. Because of the off sets of the rims I believe the tire tracks will match up well. If all will clear this is what I would do. If I could change both to 55 or even 60 series and still clear that would be a real blessing
 
#27 ·
I now have the rear 6.5 inch rims and 195/50 15 tires up front and the front 5.5 inch rims with the 165/60 tires in the the rear. I'm driving the car around as regular this for a week to insure the front will not rub. As soon as I can confirm no rub, I will then get a use pair of 205/50 15 and put on the 5.5 inch rims out back. At the same time I'm looking for a pair of the 6.5 inch rims to go with 6.5 rims all around. As I will still use 205/50 15s on that set of rims in the rear its a wash on the used set of tires. The reason not that I have confirmed with my own eyes on my own car that the rears up front, fronts out back swap have lined the tire tracks right on point due to the of sets of the rims. The next thing for my eyes to see is if the 205/50 15 tire on the 5.5 inch rim will give me the side wall bulge of the muscle car era and fill back out the space the skinny 165/60 tire leaving undone. I know on the 6.5 rim because of the off set the 205 will have the wider track stager back in place. I just believe on the 5.5 inch rim the front and rear track will be nearly equal. I just want to see it and drive on it. I believe the side wall will have more flex on the 5.5 inch rim and that side wall bulge will be pretty as a cute love handle.

Now ride wise the 195/50s up front give a fuller feeling ride. The starring is a bit heavier. Turning at speed takes much less steering wheel input. I like the feeling . The 165/60s out back feel like what they are taller and squirrel around more. But they are just back there Until the front is confirmed to have no rub. The car feels heavier at this point and that for me is better so I'll keep going this direction.

I'm going to get the 205s. As I am thinking about bit a 60 might be better than a 50 for this bulge fantasy as its all just an experiment anyhow I'll see if the tire shop boys got time to indulge my foolishness today.

I am still having so much fun with this car.
 
#30 ·
Final set up is 195/50 15 on rear stock 6.5 inch 6 spoke rims up front. 195/60 15 on front 5.5 inch rims on the rear. 34.5 psi front 35.5 psi rear. It appears all tires clear no rubbing.

Drive is much less harsh on low speed rough surfaces. Runs well have yet to drive it at highway speeds. Have not been over 65 miles yet. Will make a highway run tonight.

Look is nice tires look muscular.
 
#31 ·
For best steering response, you want the sidewalls to be as perpendicular to the ground as you can get. Having a "bulge" means that flex needs to be accommodated before turning can happen - it's why the recommendation for a 195/50 tire on an approximate 2000 pound vehicle is to run it on a 7" rim, and a 205/50 to be run on an 8" rim.

If you're looking for comfort and flex, my opinion is you're better off going to the lightest rim you can, sized in width appropriately for the tire. As such, a 185/55 on a 6.5" wide rim will give you much better steering response and probably roughly equal grip to a 205/50 on a 6.5" rim, as the pinch in the sidewalls won't allow the shoulders of the tire to work like they were designed to. Plus then you have that extra unsprung weight from the wider tires that worsen hydroplaning as well.
 
#36 · (Edited)
My goal was for looks to have a wider stance. For ride to drive more like my SUV with sports suspension. All at an affordable and easy method. Mission accomplished for the price of $80. Dollars.

I moved the rear wheel and tires to the front of the car. That put 195/50 15s on the front psi set a 34.5. It moved the front wheels out to give a wide front stance. At zero cost. The front wheels were moved to the rear the original 165/60 tires were replaced with 195/60 15s psi set at 36. The tires where bought used at $80. Dollars. This put the rear track inline with the front track. The car steering feels heavier due to the wider front tires and all the harshness is gone. It is a much softer ride as it feels like a heavier car. It cruises along at 75 - 80 miles per hour like a smooth sedan. Bump that left paddle and go from D to 5 when you need wake things up and set up for a high speed pass. This is the feel I wanted and it came with only a $80 dollar price tag. I have no clearance, rubbing, or traction control issues. Just great driving. When I buy new tires I am sure to look for a 205/55 if it fits for the rear, the used tire shop I went to only had one. The matching 195/60s had a nice tread on them so they got the call. New 195/50s will go on the front although I suspect 185/55s would give and even softer ride if they fit.


Moving on to springs now, it will be a variable rate spring that starts out stock but then wont compress enough to hit the bump stop. This will require a shock that will control rebound well. I'm am not expecting to get off cheap with this phase.
But this is wheely happening
 
#38 ·
TWCOM it appears you have Design 5 wheels on your Fortwo. That's what came on mine when I got it used. I couldn't really tell if your's is chrome or aluminum. Mine are chrome plated and the chrome started peeling off in large pieces exposing the black matte wheel underneath. These wheels are very soft and warp and bend on the slightest pothole. I have a passenger front and a drivers rear that are severely bent on in the tire bead area. Local tire shops can't straighten the wheels because it has 3 lugs and they require more lugs than that. The car was almost undrivable on the interstate. The little fellow would vibrate terribly around 65 to 70 mph

That led me to buy four 3 spoke rims and I found myself determined to protect these wheels and my spine from potholes and dead animals. I read threads til my eyeballs swelled and tire researched for over 3 weeks straight. I wanted more sidewall between me and road, I also didn't want to upset the traction control. I took notes from not only SCOA but also ClubSmart. It seems the Canadians wanted more ground clearance because of snow. I know lifting a car ruins handling somewhat but I like a taller car, so I did order the Daystar lift kit. I found a tire with a tread pattern I liked so I bought four 215/70/15. I know they will work fine on the rear. Jzchen has me second guessing my choice for the front. If they rub, and they probably will, I may try spacers. Worst case scenario I will buy two 65 or even 60 series tires for the front and keep the two 70's for the rear.

I'm not a race car driver but I think the Smart handles well in stock trim. It's an 8 foot long car and I'm sure Mercedes made many changes to make it more than safe for an average to poor driver. There's a You tube video that demonstrates the problems they were ironing out on the 450 which is the older brother of the 451. I think certain adjustments can be made and it will handle much better for a pretty good driver. I have had a couple of saves in that car that I wondered how I ever safely averted danger. My hat is off to Mercedes. They worked hard to make it handle safely and it does handle well. Lifting it will probably hurt it, but larger tires probably help it, so not sure how it is going to handle after my mods. My biggest concern is a light car on larger tires would hydroplane more easily maybe?

But at any rate it is gonna look good and unique and hopefully it will glide over bumps and potholes that use to ring it's bell ! Now if I could only find the time in my schedule to do the mod. I want 2 or 3 days so I can video and document for a you tube video. Got back surgery Dec 1st and the work schedule isn't letting up. Max just sits there patiently waiting. DCO
 
#40 ·
TWCOM it appears you have Design 5 wheels on your Fortwo. That's what came on mine when I got it used. I couldn't really tell if your's is chrome or aluminum. Mine are chrome plated and the chrome started peeling off in large pieces exposing the black matte wheel underneath. These wheels are very soft and warp and bend on the slightest pothole. I have a passenger front and a drivers rear that are severely bent on in the tire bead area. Local tire shops can't straighten the wheels because it has 3 lugs and they require more lugs than that. The car was almost undrivable on the interstate. The little fellow would vibrate terribly around 65 to 70 mph



That led me to buy four 3 spoke rims and I found myself determined to protect these wheels and my spine from potholes and dead animals. I read threads til my eyeballs swelled and tire researched for over 3 weeks straight. I wanted more sidewall between me and road, I also didn't want to upset the traction control. I took notes from not only SCOA but also ClubSmart. It seems the Canadians wanted more ground clearance because of snow. I know lifting a car ruins handling somewhat but I like a taller car, so I did order the Daystar lift kit. I found a tire with a tread pattern I liked so I bought four 215/70/15. I know they will work fine on the rear. Jzchen has me second guessing my choice for the front. If they rub, and they probably will, I may try spacers. Worst case scenario I will buy two 65 or even 60 series tires for the front and keep the two 70's for the rear.



I'm not a race car driver but I think the Smart handles well in stock trim. It's an 8 foot long car and I'm sure Mercedes made many changes to make it more than safe for an average to poor driver. There's a You tube video that demonstrates the problems they were ironing out on the 450 which is the older brother of the 451. I think certain adjustments can be made and it will handle much better for a pretty good driver. I have had a couple of saves in that car that I wondered how I ever safely averted danger. My hat is off to Mercedes. They worked hard to make it handle safely and it does handle well. Lifting it will probably hurt it, but larger tires probably help it, so not sure how it is going to handle after my mods. My biggest concern is a light car on larger tires would hydroplane more easily maybe?



But at any rate it is gonna look good and unique and hopefully it will glide over bumps and potholes that use to ring it's bell ! Now if I could only find the time in my schedule to do the mod. I want 2 or 3 days so I can video and document for a you tube video. Got back surgery Dec 1st and the work schedule isn't letting up. Max just sits there patiently waiting. DCO


DCO- Forget the video and just do the mod. It’s been a while. Not many people at all will likely do it. (A good indicator is how long it took for Daystar to produce the kit for you). Sometimes it’s better to sort things out for yourself, than keep others in mind but never take care of yourself. You waited long enough for the parts, now you are trying to allot some time so you can document, but may never get to it doing so. There may be issues and time ticking may be difficult to resolve with tech support because it has been so long. My hope that your tires would still be exchangeable if any issues arise is diminishing quickly.

Don’t forget to try to keep the diameters/circumferences between front and rear close enough to not disrupt traction control. The % difference acceptable doesn’t seem to be defined just yet, but I have probably not read up as much as you....
 
#39 ·
I have seemed to get the ride comfort to a level I like although I suspect that 185/60 (if it fits without issue) up front would be even more comfort. That would make a 185/60 15 on 6.5 inch rims up front and 195/60 15 on 5 inch rims on rear to be what I believe to be the cheapest quickest way with these stock rims to get to a stable comfortable sedan like ride.

Because my 195/50 15 tires have plenty of tread life left and I like the way they look, there is no need for me to change them so I won't. The used 195/60 15 I bought for $35. Each are also in very good shape. So tire wise I will be holding serve with these tires and rims while I move on to shocks/springs.

I must say that freed up money would find a set of 6.5 inch rims with 205/55 tires on the rear of this car. My mind thinks that would look hot. 195/50 front 205/55 rear ride my suffer slightly. The cheap/poor side of me can't see the change at this time. Cost would be $150 apiece for rims $90 apiece for tires so to spend $500 dollars and may end up with a less or equal ride comfort is not the best idea. Now three of my four rims are bent and the shop I would use to fix them is about $100 dollars apiece, at that price I would replace rather then repair. And if I bought rims they would be the 6.5 inch rather than the 5.0 rims. Lol. So I am at the cheap/poor man bottleneck. Lol. Wow thinking this through I either stop right here and ride awhile (until spring) or prepare to spend $1200. Hopefully it wont take $1200 but I have to be prepared for it to. Here is the domino effect. First to balance the wheels, the rims should be unbent. There is no real sense in changing shocks until wheels are balanced and any spring change should be in combination with shocks. Course I could put the rims and tires on my Christmas list. ???
 
#43 ·
Picking up the set of Darwin 17” X 6” rims with Yokohama S Drive (195/40 R17) Tires tomorrow. My intent is not too put them on my Smart but that I might trade them for a mint set of Design 5 wheels. But we all ready know I will not be able to resist at least bolting them on for a photo op and then a drive around the block and then on the highway and then it will be dark so I'll leave them on until the next day and 5 months later still have them on the car.... lol.
 
#44 ·
But we all ready know I will not be able to resist at least bolting them on for a photo op and then a drive around the block and then on the highway and then it will be dark so I'll leave them on until the next day and 5 months later still have them on the car.... lol.
It’s you’ve got to drive to just the right place for the photo shoot. Then fall in love with them. Then never let go! [emoji6]

Hopefully they don’t ride too harsh for you. Seemed like you were originally shooting for comfort, and have made a turn in the other direction.....
 
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