We are the proud owners of two Smart Cars. We bought the wifes an line and got it in June of 2008. I bought a used one for me in 2010. the wifes car has 80,000 miles on it. Afew weeks ago the check engine light came on. pulled the codes (misfire #3 cyl.) Switched 1 and 3 plugs. Code returned. Switched coils. Code returned. Took the car to the MB dealer (since they now have Smart) $125 just to plug it in. They said it has low compression in #3. Could be burnt valves or bad rings. To fix it they have to pull the motor so they can remove the head. I ok'ed the repair. they next tell me that #3 injector is bad and that the valves can not tb lapped in because the valve guides are worn too bad. The cost to remove engine and replace it was quoted as $1500. With the assorted new parts and machine work to fix the head the repair cost is now up to $3500. Now they tell me they can not find replacement valve guides. A new head will add another $1500 to the bill. They found a machine shop that will make valve guides for $400. I told them that I will make the new guides and take them to the shop doing the work.( I have been a machinist for 40 years.) I go to the shop to take measurements for the guides and learn that all six of the exahust valves are worn beyond repair. SOOOOO .... After this long discription of my problem, here is my question. Has anyone else had this problem with their car or did I get the first lemon from Smart. I am having a tought time understanding how a motor with only 80,000 miles can have all six exahust guides wear out at the same time. I have had many other cars with 300,000 pluse miles on them and never replaced valve guides. Any suggustions, advice, or general thoughts would be helpfull. I feel that even tho the car is out of warrenty, I should get help from MB because this is a design defect with the motor.
Excessive valve guide wear
grrump
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Sure wish Yanmar would adapt one of its little sailboat diesels to this pig....
They turn about the same RPM as this transmission.
I can't imagine anyone putting a thousand dollars into repairing it. Dump it and get something you can buy parts for from Autozone. Even if it only gets 12mpg, you'll save money.
They turn about the same RPM as this transmission.
I can't imagine anyone putting a thousand dollars into repairing it. Dump it and get something you can buy parts for from Autozone. Even if it only gets 12mpg, you'll save money.
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If you feel that way, that the smart is a pig and anything else would be better. I hope you trade yours in and be happy.
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Agreed about the high rpms. I was surprised when I ran 14k miles on the same oil change, even redlining the car, high rpms and all, only to find out it's not burning oil and I was only 1/2 quart shy of oil. It's certainly designed for all the revving necessary to keep it moving.IMO lugging is anythimg under 2,500 RPM thrugh the gears.
Our little engine is nothing more than a Japanese motorcycle engine and it was born to turn fast
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4,991 Posts
I keep my rpms higher than most, I would think. Low rpm does not equal High mileage most of the time.
2500 is probably a little higher than necessary even for WOT...IMO lugging is anythimg under 2,500 RPM thrugh the gears.
Our little engine is nothing more than a Japanese motorcycle engine and it was born to turn fast
Most motorcycle engines have much bigger bores than strokes. Our engines' stroke is 14% bigger than our bore. Redline is generally defined by stroke, while bore has more effect on the RPM at which efficiency is best.
Strokers like are found in smarts will tend to have a low redline for their displacement, but will be efficient through higher revs. Those big-bore, short-stroke motorcycle engines can rev to the moon, but if you want good fuel economy you'll have to pay lots of attention to keeping the revs down. Personally, I prefer the strokers.
Hi, I was wondering if you have heard anything back from smart yet on the issue, we have found new guides and reamed them as we had the exact same problem. Thanks Brad
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aww man that's a shame. Did it have an aftermarket header or muffler?
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it would be nice to know what's causing it, but it could be a nothing more than a bad batch of guides, or a series of guides that were not installed exactly correctly...
One thing for sure, I don't think it was jsut a troll like some ewre suggesting...
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1,225 Posts
Okay, just got back from the dealership. A week ago, my smartbiru gave out this CEL P0302 (Misfire Cyl #2). Called for an appointment the next day, and was scheduled for today. Meanwhile, I'd thought of bad injectors being the cause and got a can of Techron into a full tank. Scangauge II couldn't erase the light or the code in the memory banks even when tried multiple times. That CEL went out on its own four days after it came on.
Today came, took car in, and with the CEL complaint, also asked for 60K maintenance package. They did a 'short test' (as per invoice) and came up with these numbers: Cyl 1 = 182, Cyl 2 = 135, Cyl 3 = 180. Suggested that Cyl Head #2 has 'an issue', but needed further diagnostic test. They'd checked and okayed the spark plugs.
Settled the bill, went into the car, started it up and the CEL is back on! I was the last to leave, so I drove back home with the CEL and many questions in mind. I felt the car drove as it usually does. 95% auto-driven, usually 92 octane, only once 87 (absent-minded), and when I could, 93 octane. Car had 63,111 when it went into the shop today. FWIW.
Today came, took car in, and with the CEL complaint, also asked for 60K maintenance package. They did a 'short test' (as per invoice) and came up with these numbers: Cyl 1 = 182, Cyl 2 = 135, Cyl 3 = 180. Suggested that Cyl Head #2 has 'an issue', but needed further diagnostic test. They'd checked and okayed the spark plugs.
Settled the bill, went into the car, started it up and the CEL is back on! I was the last to leave, so I drove back home with the CEL and many questions in mind. I felt the car drove as it usually does. 95% auto-driven, usually 92 octane, only once 87 (absent-minded), and when I could, 93 octane. Car had 63,111 when it went into the shop today. FWIW.
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it's no consolation, but you aren't alone! Start looking for used engines -- it's probably cheaper and depending on your skill set you might be able to do it yourself!
valve guides
Hey, it's me again. Sorry to take so long for an update. Smart has refused to help me in any way. Told me a car with 80k miles was not under warrenty. Like I didn't know that. They would not even respond to the fact that all six valve guides were worn out. Well to make matters worse, when I took the car in for the first repair, I told them that sometimes the car will not go into reverse. Would have to go back to park, shut off the engine , wait a minute or so and then restart and put in reverse. some times it worked and sometimes would have to do it a few times before it would find reverse. Well after the engine repair bill of $3800.00 to repair the burnt valve, they tell me that the clutch needs to be replaced. They tell me this after the motor has been replaced in the car. Clutch replacement will run about $1800.00. They said the car was running to bad the trouble shoot before the engine repairs were done. The clutch is not bad, but a sensor that tells it to go into reverse is bad. the sensors and clutch are a package unit. To replace the sensor you must replace the clutch. Open to any and all ideas!!!
Hey, it's me again. Sorry to take so long for an update. Smart has refused to help me in any way. Told me a car with 80k miles was not under warrenty. Like I didn't know that. They would not even respond to the fact that all six valve guides were worn out. Well to make matters worse, when I took the car in for the first repair, I told them that sometimes the car will not go into reverse. Would have to go back to park, shut off the engine , wait a minute or so and then restart and put in reverse. some times it worked and sometimes would have to do it a few times before it would find reverse. Well after the engine repair bill of $3800.00 to repair the burnt valve, they tell me that the clutch needs to be replaced. They tell me this after the motor has been replaced in the car. Clutch replacement will run about $1800.00. They said the car was running to bad the trouble shoot before the engine repairs were done. The clutch is not bad, but a sensor that tells it to go into reverse is bad. the sensors and clutch are a package unit. To replace the sensor you must replace the clutch. Open to any and all ideas!!!
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Pfffft! As far as I know, the clutch will only cause a no-reverse if the friction disc does not slide freely on the trans input shaft splines, and even then it would be intermittent. No sensor involved in that. The shifter module sends a request for reverse to the trans control module under the driver's seat. The trans control module tells the clutch to disengage and the shift motors to select reverse. The repair information does not so state, but by the wiring diagram the clutch actuator apparently has position sensors in it. The shift motors have hall-effect position sensors in them to tell the control unit their positions. So it sounds as if it can be the clutch or the electrical parts. The shifter could be sending the control unit a implausible request or the clutch position could be invalid. The shift motors could be sending a invalid or implausible position reading. One would need a capable scan tool to read these data to determine which is at fault. Unfortunately, if the fault is intermittent you are screwed. That is why one sometimes receives a shotgun diagnosis, if that is what you got. Obviously, I do not know.
Keep in mind this is me thinking out loud and not a diagnosis.
no reverse
Thank you for all the feed back. I thought I was a good machanic until we got these cars. The reverse issue is intermitent but when you go to reverse the back up lights come on even though it is not giving a R on the dash. The dash light will either be blank or N with a beeping. I have never delt with a transmission that does not have linkage so I am at a loss on this. I would have thought that MB would have the proper tools to diagnose this problem but they are the ones telling me the sensors are in the clutch pack. Are there any good manuals out there that will help me work on this car? I admitt that this is the first new car I have purchased since 1986 (Suzuki X-90, Great car) and I am amazed at how much cars have advanced.
Thank you for all the feed back. I thought I was a good machanic until we got these cars. The reverse issue is intermitent but when you go to reverse the back up lights come on even though it is not giving a R on the dash. The dash light will either be blank or N with a beeping. I have never delt with a transmission that does not have linkage so I am at a loss on this. I would have thought that MB would have the proper tools to diagnose this problem but they are the ones telling me the sensors are in the clutch pack. Are there any good manuals out there that will help me work on this car? I admitt that this is the first new car I have purchased since 1986 (Suzuki X-90, Great car) and I am amazed at how much cars have advanced.
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Agreed, I would start there. The symptoms you are describing are exactly what the lastest software patch is designed to fix. I've seen pictures of the clutch out of the car, and I've never seen any sensor. The clutch actuator references off it's own internal position encoder. I've been all over my engine, and cannot remember seeing any other sensor that would deal with the clutch. I know a long time ago, there was a discussion regarding a lockout feature if the clutch got too hot. But if memory serves, I think it was debated whether or not it was an actual sensor, or a time out counter in the ECU that assumed the clutch got hot.
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Found one of the threads: http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f4/clutch-overheat-sensor-does-smart-have-one-35892/ Not a lot of info, but it does reference that the ECU calculates clutch load and will shut down the car. No sensor.
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