Consider yourself lucky, or gifted. I'm envious!

 

Definitely no complaints! But I haven't seen any other complaints about large non-linearities with the SOC meter in the bottom half or as it approaches zero.

All in all, this was a one-off experiment to see what kind of range I could get under close to ideal conditions. I doubt I'd have the patience to do this again, nor would I consider regularly trying to eek out the last bit of efficiency at the expense of driving it in a fun manner. It is good to know that if we got into a situation where it would be a reach to get home, that I know how much more range I could expect by driving differently.

 

No modifications other than a precision alignment (factory alignment toe settings were terrible and would have probably led to the tires being worn out in 15k miles or less). I'm using 30/34 PSI front/rear.

Very interesting! Because I get average range in my smart (maybe 90-100 mi if driven carefully in hyper-mileing mode 30-45 mph in warm weather) and also, my rear tires (mostly driving in said mode) only lasted about 16,000 miles!

But my understanding is that aside from front toe, the alignment is not adjustable on the Smart. Did the alignment shop install some aftermarket stuff to make the camber and rear toe adjustable?

 

No, I left the camber alone. I don't recall the exact values but they were relatively consistent side to side and negative all around. I had pretty significant toe in from the factory both front and rear. Because our Smart is mostly going to be a lower speed vehicle, I had it set to 1/32 toe in both fronts, and had it set to zero toe at the rear, so I'd get a little bit of dynamic toe out under power and at speed. The idea behind that was to help the rear end rotate a bit, and it seems to have reduced some of the relentless understeer with the OEM wheels. It's definitely more stable at highway speeds and transitioning from going straight to turning at high speeds.

 

When clients ask me "what range" they should expect, I stick STRICTLY to the EPA averages. I believe the EPA claims for the smart EV are very fair, and very accurate based on how I would prefer to use the car. I do believe if necessary I can definitely modify my driving and usage behavior to exceed 80 miles, and I can definitely be an energy hog and get less than 68 miles.

In my opinion, there are far too many lease returns not being purchased on the strict idea that "the car doesn't get enough range" or "the car doesn't get 68 miles" even though TIME AND TIME AGAIN many owners of vehicles just aren't willing to exercise anything beyond lazy thinking to achieve the 68 miles.

Many of these folks literally look at the instrument cluster and see "45 miles (or any number lower than 68)" and give up thinking the range is only "45 miles." No!... silly! It's a predictive number, based on past and current usage. So if you're sitting in a parking lot for 30 minutes with the a/c running, it's going to continually give you a lower number because you're wasting energy and aren't going anywhere.

And then they don't even drive the car for 45 miles because they are too scared, and then 3 years later they're blaming the car and bringing it back and buying a Toyota hybrid or a really expensive EV car like a Tesla or Chevy Bolt, when some of those folks could have taken advantage of what they had but were too scared (or brain dead) to use (the smart and it's $100/some per month payment).

 

When clients ask me "what range" they should expect, I stick STRICTLY to the EPA averages. I believe the EPA claims for the smart EV are very fair, and very accurate based on how I would prefer to use the car.

I think some of the issue is in interpreting the EPA averages. For the 2015 ED, it is "107 combined city/highway, 122 MPGe city, 93 MPGe highway, and 32 kwh/100 miles". I'm not even sure how the EPA intended that to be interpreted. As someone who wasn't concerned with this specific thing during my entire process in buying this car, I **still** don't know how to interpret it and deduce a "range" from it. If I had to guess right now, I'd use the "32 kwh/100 miles, and based on the 17.6 kwh battery pack size, calculate it's good for 55 miles.

 

Not exactly unusual. I run my tires slightly over pressure too. (1-2 lbs). Stock alignment. Swapping Kumhos for Toyos summer and winter respectively.

Here's our rules of thumb:

- Optimal speeds for energy usage are 40-80 km/h or 25-50 mph (i.e. greater than EPA range)
- Energy draw goes up exponentially as speed increases
- Fan draws effective range down about 10% (regardless of AC/Heat/circulate)
- Cabin heater draws effective range down 40%
- AC is a modest draw. It will come on automagically when the battery pack internal temp is >30C
- 54 km will use 55% charge at -5C (23F) and 40% charge at 25C (77F). On highway, with hills and wind, various conditions.


So, yah, if you drive a modest speed and don't pull too much with climate control you'll get better than EPA range.

 

In another post I've mentioned that a break through in Lithium Ion batteries will or has happened.

 

My personal best on a 2014 smartED (Cabrio) is 131 miles w/ about 3% SOC remaining.

ALL surface streets (-40mph), NO Highway speeds, assorted stop/go and signals.
Hilly Northern VA area (I have adjustable regen)

My favorite regen story is about a month after I got "Miss Kitty" I went to a friend's house for dinner/movie.

He lives at the top of a mountain. When I arrived I had less than 20% SOC.
I plugged into his 240v charger (he has a different brand EV) and by the time I was ready to leave I was at 85% SOC.

I waved goodbye, and cranked regen to maximum and coasted down his mountain.

By the time I was off the mountain, I was reading +90% SOC?!?!?
I was pretty impressed.

 

I've never had the patience to really try to see what I could achieve. I do know though, that 80 miles with good weather and flat lands has been pretty easy for me. Even knowing what I know, I do believe the EPA's 68 miles estimate is spot-on accurate. You don't want to be too optimistic, but at the same time don't want to be too conservative either.

 

Can it really be that if we ran it to 0% SOC, that we could go 120 miles in this manner?

... Seems unusual, no?

This thread compelled me last night to do an ED range test of my own. Not sure if my testing logic was right, but here's how it went...

Last night, I loaded up the dachshund and headed to Home Depot on an errand. I started with a full charge.

I picked a country backroad route, with gentle rolling hills, speed limits around 40 mph, and minimal traffic or stopping.

Upon heading out, I reset the trip odometer. During the drive, I watched the SOC gauge like a hawk and used hypothetical "best practices" to minimize battery drain.

The results were (surprisingly) virtually identical to those of InjuredAgain. I had no idea that it might be feasible to get **double** the 60-mile range that my indicator usually promises me.

For my 20.6 miles of driving last night, I used 17% of charge. Extrapolating, this shows a potential 121 miles of range?!?

Some miscellany: The dog and I weigh only 150# combined. It was 73°F; no discernible wind. No HVAC. I did use headlights on the return segment. I got even better range 'outbound' than I did coming home (I'd guess about 20% better, judging by the number of miles driven versus the estimated range indicated).

It was a fun experiment. I love this amazing car!

 

The results were (surprisingly) virtually identical to those of InjuredAgain. I had no idea that it might be feasible to get **double** the 60-mile range that my indicator usually promises me.

For my 20.6 miles of driving last night, I used 17% of charge. Extrapolating, this shows a potential 121 miles of range?!?

The "range left" indicator is notoriously inaccurate and generally understates range (except for at the very end of course). It was intended to mitigate range anxiety, but it causes much more of it. It is better used for entertainment purposes only.

I just use SOC and trip odo - along with considering if there are upcoming higher sped or long hills. I works much better,

 

Wow! 130 miles by wrumbarger has got to be the all-time record that I've heard of, and that Steven has duplicated the 1+ mile/1% SOC is also very nice. Guess I don't have some super-duper one-off powered by Kryptonite Smart ED though and that kind of makes me sad.

Totally agree this is an amazing vehicle. My wife was honestly pretty skeptical at first but she loves it more with every passing day. Since doing what I did, she's turned into a closet hypermiler to try and outdo me.


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My person best was 76 miles I think in mine. That was with the fan running, top down/rails out, I had passengers, no "highway" but one road was 55mph...got home with 8% indicated. A friend borrowed the car for a week while his LEAF got a warranty battery replacement. He got around 85 miles per charge with it on For Bragg, where the top speed is 40. I can completely see how these cars, in strictly controlled speed environments, could break 100mi/Charge.

 

The record over in the German group is 192km or 120 miles if you prefer that.

Just short of the 200km needed to claim the prize in the case of beer challenge.

Keep on trying for that case of real beer. You may have to go over to Germany to claim it, though. And no matter how good the range, the smart won't drive across the Atlantic.

 

I think wrumbarger has already won the beer challenge! I'm definitely sure my bladder wouldn't want four hours at 30 mph to claim the prize.


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So in your experience, the SOC is fairly linear and accurate across its entire range?


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So in your experience, the SOC is fairly linear and accurate across its entire range?

Is the SOC accurate? YES.

The SOC represents the instantaneous voltage level across the HV cells. The voltage will drop as the battery is drained of energy. The energy used depends on speed, wind, friction, temperature etc.

So the rate of usage of charge is non-linear based on your instantaneous usage. Thus the change in SOC is determined by your current driving conditions. Just like fuel usage in an ICE.

SOC will drop fast if you are at highway speeds, and drop much slower if you are at side street speeds.

 

What a masterpiece !!!!!

 

Does the Corealis effect come into play as well ?

Kidding. I went over the mountains for a thrill in a new 1979 Mazda RX-7.

It was so beautiful. I was not in a rush which made it even better.

At the bottom of the range, no air conditioning. A few blocks on, a Mazda dealer. Tiny town.

Mazda obviously wanted the car to be an overwhelming success. The dealer diagnosed the problem in minutes, he gave me a flashlight water droplet fan and an extra set of size D batteries and said have a great day, mate! (kidding.)

They took a compressor from a new 1979 in stock and replaced it while I waited. What a dealer.

Never had a problem after that for 20,000 miles when I sold it and got a 1980 model.

My opinion, your real world feat is why ED's are going to be big.

I think the real problem is some are too lazy to plug it in. It's a huge chore. Maybe they will come up with a docking station. You just get out and it finds the charger, good to go.

I hate the smell of gas on clothing or skin. It is almost impossible to get rid of. The last splash I took was many, many years ago. Never again.

I got doused. After that, gloves on both hands and always stay as far from the filling pipe as far as I can reach, off to the side.

Congratulations.

 

I think that's generally the case, especially with the warmer temps that you and we have been having. My wife's economy has actually gone up as the weather has warmed a bit, so now it's really almost exactly 1 mile/1% SOC, even though she liberally uses the fan and A/C when she needs to.

For me, it seems that when you fully charge it, and just like a gas gauge, it takes a bit of driving to get it off 100% SOC. When I leave my house, I can go one of a couple of ways - one way is downhill significantly and leads to flat roads, and the other tends uphills. When I head downhill and can keep rolling along, it seems like four or five miles before the SOC clearly moves off 100%, and it's probably at least that long before the regen works as strongly as it normally does. Going the uphill way, it's still a couple of miles before the SOC moves.

I did once charge up at work and got directly into rush hour, stop and go traffic. It took about 20 minutes to go the half mile to the freeway, and probably at least ten minutes of that time, I had no regen.

So there's a little bit extra capacity, it seems, at 100% SOC. But still, the Smart is a super economical vehicle and we are half considering buying another one.


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By the way, I saw a story this morning about a couple of guys in Europe who managed to coax 560 miles out of a Tesla P100d. They did so by driving at an average of 24 MPH, for 24 hours straight. For a Smart ED, that might be the way to go to break the 150 mile mark. That'd only be about six hours worth, so doable with no bathroom breaks.


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Very early this morning, I woke up and couldn't go back to sleep. A few weeks ago, my wife had driven on this very flat road (it borders a lake) and reported that the SOC barely went down as she drove the ten mile length of it. What the heck, I had an extra hour before heading into work and the Smart was fully charged up so why not?

Speed limit is 35 MPH. It took a couple of miles of driving to get to the road on city streets, and then I drove at the speed limit until I had used up 10% SOC. As near as I could tell, that happened between 16 and 17 miles driven. I irritated a couple of drivers but not too badly, and also followed behind some drivers as well so I got some drafting effect. Used the fan on setting 1, did not use A/C nor headlights, and had the stereo on low. I think I used the brakes only at the turnaround point.

It was very calming and relaxing to just drive along on a cool sunny morning enjoying the scenery. So with enough patience and a big enough bladder, I'd bet 160 miles is doable.

 

So with enough patience and a big enough bladder, I'd bet 160 miles is doable.

Nice! Pack an empty water bottle for your 160-mile test? What tire pressures are you running?

 

Sorry guys - no way can I believe 160 miles on a charge - maybe 100 if doing a real crawl, but that's going to be an exception. Trying to figure 16 miles is 10% of your charge, thus yielding 160 miles range is wishful thinking. Your real range will tell the tale when you take it down under 50% or even lower is better. I've got two EV's and the best number I have ever seen is 90 and that happened once or twice in two years. You can play with the alignment, suspension and tire pressures all you want - 160 ain't gonna happen.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 11,700 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 750 miles

 

Sorry guys - no way can I believe 160 miles on a charge - maybe 100 if doing a real crawl, but that's going to be an exception. Trying to figure 16 miles is 10% of your charge, thus yielding 160 miles range is wishful thinking. Your real range will tell the tale when you take it down under 50% or even lower is better. I've got two EV's and the best number I have ever seen is 90 and that happened once or twice in two years. You can play with the alignment, suspension and tire pressures all you want - 160 ain't gonna happen.



Len

2014 EV Coupe 11,700 miles

2014 EV Cabriolet 750 miles

Take a look at post #31 (among others), along with the post that I started this thread with. It's already happening that multiple people are seeing greater than 1 mile per 1% SOC.

The greatest range we've seen has been north of 85 miles and we still had over 15% SOC. This was my wife driving solely in town during not-too-busy traffic times of the day, over a period of about three days when temps were warm but cool enough not to need A/C.

Tire pressures, by the way, can make as much as 8-10% difference in fuel economy in gas engine vehicles, going from an underinflated pressure to one at or just above the recommended pressures. Even the same tire size but in different brands can yield as much as a 3-4% difference even when inflated to the same pressure.


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When wondering about potential range, I see no problem with imagining 160 miles. Optimism is a lot more fun, regardless of the outcome.

 

I think it's been shown that the SOC meter is fairly linear across its range, with possibly a little extra capacity at the extreme top (90-100%) and bottom (0-10%) of the range. In comfortable temperatures and in city driving with no real effort to maximize range, there are examples of getting more than 1 mile per 1% SOC despite some higher speeds, A/C usage, and stop-and-go driving. At a steady slower speed, with no braking/regen losses, no use of A/C or brake lights, I could easily imagine 160 miles of range. You also get the benefit of higher battery energy output due to the slow discharge rate.


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At a steady slower speed, with no braking/regen losses, no use of A/C or brake lights, I could easily imagine 160 miles of range.

Not throwing water on your "extreme optimism" but no Guinness Records are given for imagining or extrapolating . . .

When you are sitting at the side of the road with ED's HV battery exhausted, your "water bottle" full and a call in for roadside service - take a picture of your results.

 

Well I started out with a full charge this morning, drove 5 miles and I'm still at 100%. Looks like I may never have to charge again - infinite range!!

Len
2014 EV Coupe 11,800 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 750 miles

 

If there were money to be made, I'd give the 160 mile range a shot. But alas, there isn't. I'm still entirely comfortable believing it can be done based on that slow driving.

I've been reading a bit on Formula E, and the battery discharge rates they achieve are pretty spectacular. The original spec called for a 28 kwh battery but a maximum output of 200 kw. That's like a discharge rate of over 7C. I thought that anything over about 5C was damaging to the battery but that 4-5C was okay for short bursts. Our 451ED limits normal current to just 2C and gives us two minutes of discharge at 3.15C. Wouldn't it be nice to bump that up a bit and give us 4C for a minute? That'd be around or just above 90 HP, which would pretty entertaining but not damaging to the battery pack nor probably the wiring.

 

I have a 2014 Cabriolet with 9,418 miles on it that I got in September of last year and have kept track of every trip and every charge since.

I've put 2,900 miles on it myself so far (it had 6,470 when it arrived).

I have routinely gotten over 100 miles per charge since late spring with a maximum of 120 this past charge.

I take mostly short trips (my commute is less than an 8 mile round trip), don't go on highways with it (anything over 50 causes the range to drop), and try to keep power usage to 25% or less (slow, steady acceleration).

My colder weather experience (I live in the Chicago area) is that the car will not charge up as much - it will take in over 20KwH as opposed to 16Kwh in winter and the mi/KwH is up to 6 in summer and as low as 4 in winter.

I keep the tire pressure at around 44 in the back and 40 in the front (the opposite of my 2000 Honda Insight which even with a barely functional battery pack I am getting 70mpg on). If this car had low rolling resistance tires like my Insight has, I think I could easily get another 10-20 miles of range.

I don't use the air conditioning (it's a convertible), I do put the top all the way down, and I do not drive more than 30mph with the windows open - drag is far worse than using the air conditioning (from my experience with the Insight). I drive like I am not in a hurry, try to look ahead and know how all the lights on roads I frequent behave so that I don't waste energy racing to the next red light and I spend a lot of time coasting in neutral before using drive to recapture some of the energy coming to a red light or stoplight.

Unfortunately, I don't always succeed at guessing how long the light will stay green. The worst range killer for me is getting caught by stop lights on 40-45 mph roads - a couple of those on a trip really lowers the mi/KwH.

I really enjoy driving the car. I don't get range anxiety and am willing to go down to 0% on the charge meter. I have not as of yet found where it completely runs out of power and I do not plan on finding out - though circumstances beyond my control may cause me to find out.

 

I have a 2014 Cabriolet with 9,418 miles on it that I got in September of last year and have kept track of every trip and every charge since.

I've put 2,900 miles on it myself so far (it had 6,470 when it arrived).

I have routinely gotten over 100 miles per charge since late spring with a maximum of 120 this past charge.

More information please.

Have you ever actually gone 100 miles on a single charge or are you estimating that's what you would get, i.e. well I've gone 50 miles and I still show I have 50% left? When your gauge resets with a full charge, what does it show as your projected range?


Len
2014 EV Coupe 11,800 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 800 miles

 

My SOC gauge drops quickly from 100 to 90, then pretty linear from 80 to 20. I don't drive real conservative because it's summer in Wash DC and AC is a must.

 

We did a lot of running around this past weekend, all local roads and without trying excessively hard to maximize efficiency. We ended up driving 87 miles on one charge with 8% SOC left. This included at least 20 miles with both my wife and I in the car, combined weight of 330 pounds or so, plus numerous stops and starts, and probably about a half an hour or so total A/C usage. I don't think we were ever on a road with a speed limit of more than 40 MPH, many times the roads were 30 or 35 MPH speed limits. We were most careful after we got under 20%.

It's sitting there charging now using the supplied equipment, but even though I've set it to max current, it's only going about 8 or 9 amps so we're getting about 5% per hour. It won't be anywhere near full before I have to commute in it tomorrow, but we should be able to get it fully charged up Tuesday night into Wednesday morning.


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