déjà vu!

 

FIAT
Fix it again Tony.
I hope you know Tony.

 

A Fiat is engineered by Fiat. A smart is engineered by Mercedes Benz.
Need I say more?

 

...smart is engineered by MB...

I stand corrected! :think:

 

C'mon, guys. These are the scare tactics that naysayers use against smart. The Fiat of today isn't the same as it was in the 60's and 70's.

Although I've never driven the new 500, I've rented Fiats in Europe and have been impressed. Fiat hasn't said for certain that the 500 would come to the U.S., but I believe many posters on this board have publicly lusted over them hoping that it would one day land on U.S. shores.

Would I buy one? No, but only because I like my smart because it has two seats, not in spite of it. I have other cars when I need four seats.

If you like the size, and you need more than two seats and can only have one car, the 500 might be a decent way to go.

geosynch

 

Lets do a two by two comparison

smart fortwo:

1. two seater
2. slower
3. smaller
4. made with that French love
5. safe (according to real life crashes and data)
6. makes you an A lister just because you drive it
7. lower MSRP
8. fun factor
9. smiles per mile
10. miles per gallon
11. 70+ service centers (US)
12. company has experience building these minicars for over 10 years
13. panel swap
14. safety component as styling
15. smart is owned by a company known for reliability and quality (MB)
16. durable plastic body panels that can be swapped in a few hours
17. Tridion Safety Cell

Fiat 500:

1. four seater
2. quicker
3. larger
4. made with that Italian passion
5. safe (according to euro N-CAP testing)
6. people stare and look at you thinking it's a smart car or Tata Nano
7. higher MSRP (based on euro costs, usually the US version is even more expensive)
8. have fun darting around in a tiny car
9. adrenaline kicks per mile (the new 500s are quick)
10. where's that petrol station?
11. unknown dealer numbers for US
12. a company that builds relatively small cars, also known for rallying
13. Bumper swap at body shop ($$$$)
14. safety component not as styling
15. a company with a few road bumps in history
16. traditional body
17. traditional safety systems

 

There is no way to compare, as the 500 we will get does not yet exist. The Fiat we all see in pics or on the ground is not the car coming to the US. We will get a second generation version on a different vehicle platform that, to my knowledge, has not yet been seen or driven to report on.

 

But the euro 500 has been around for a while, and the plan for the US version really only calls for the base engine...

They have everything to do with the production process... they control the money.

To say that smart is not engineered by Mercedes is like saying a Chevrolet is not engineered by GM. The good news is that smart IS engineered by Mercedes, not to mention a lot of the parts and features common to both brands.

Well, I stand corrected! (1st...no 2nd...definitely 3rd time )

What should anyone here comment when this car isn't even available here?

Either one likes the design of one over the other or one doesn't.
Some thoughts as I see it...
How is the crashworthyness of the FIAT vs The smart?
What's the distance to either dealer?
How do the warranties compare?
Does the FIAT have ESP and other safety gizmos?
Is an additional seat really necessary?
My .02 cents:cheers:

1. Euro N-CAP tests make it rival the smart.
2. As for europe, close-ish, some can be far...
3. IDK for the USA warranty
4. Yup, the 500 is decked out in the same tech (just under different names)...Excluding maybe the Hill Holder...
5. Yup again, if you want something small but can carry more than 1 more passenger...(the iQ fails here, as its rear seats are miniscule)...

 

To say that smart is not engineered by Mercedes is like saying a Chevrolet is not engineered by GM. The good news is that smart IS engineered by Mercedes, not to mention a lot of the parts and features common to both brands.

 

While the below data quoted from Consumer Reports is a few years old it is nevertheless typical of Mercedes reliability for many years--not a great reliability record. More recent data shows some improvement but still shows two MB models as Worse Than Average. I hope our Smarts do better as they get a little age on them.


CONSUMER REPORTS 2008 CONSUMER BUYING GUIDE
MERCEDES CARS 2001 THRU 2006

MUCH BETTER THAN AVERAGE
BETTER THAN AVERAGE
AVERAGE
WORSE THAN AVERAGE
MUCH WORSE THAN AVERAGE

2001 THRU 2006

C CLASS WORSE THAN AVERAGE
CLK MUCH WORSE THAN AVERAGE
CLS MUCH WORSE THAN AVERAGE
M CLASS MUCH WORSE THAN AVERAGE
R CLASS MUCH WORSE THAN AVERAGE
SL MUCH WORSE THAN AVERAGE
SLK MUCH WORSE THAN AVERAGE

 

What should anyone here comment when this car isn't even available here?

Either one likes the design of one over the other or one doesn't.
Some thoughts as I see it...
How is the crashworthyness of the FIAT vs The smart?
What's the distance to either dealer?
How do the warranties compare?
Does the FIAT have ESP and other safety gizmos?
Is an additional seat really necessary?
My .02 cents:cheers:

 

I'm seriously thinking about dumping the smart and going to a 500 when available. Fun while it lasted but, kinda bored with it now.

 

When another two passenger micro car emerges, compare. 'Til then, this is all apples/oranges. Like comparing a Miata to a smart.

 

It is interesting to see pics of a fortwo and a 500 side by side.
The 500 is definitely not as tall and a bit longer than the smart. Access to the back seats, well... you said shoehorn?

 

It is interesting to see pics of a fortwo and a 500 side by side.
The 500 is definitely not as tall and a bit longer than the smart. Access to the back seats, well... you said shoehorn?

The Smart is a little car with a "Extra" Large Personality... Fiat 500 is a small car that has the passe style of a steaming 4 wheeled Turd... Oh, Oh, that's a little Harsh... How about that passe old Easter Egg Style... I think the Fiat 500 falls into the Transportation Category... BUT... Never mix it up with the Micro Cuteness of a Smart Car...YUP...

 

The OP is in Australia.

 

~I see a car with a "Extra" Large Personality... Wouldn't you agree~

 

I've seen the 500 in person.... I think it is a good looking little car.

I will definitely take a look at them when they get here... I'm not really in the market for another car (that isn't a C300) right now, but I like to know what is out there.

 

I owned a Fiat 500 in 1968... I guess Old is Retro New...!!! OR... You could say Fiat Designer's are bankrupt, and reached in there "Way Back Bucket" and scrapped the bottom of the bucket for that design... "Been There Done That"

 

I will be very interested in looking at one, especially the Arbath version if it is available in the USA. I understand that the dealer network will be somehow linked in with Dodge dealers, and that may kill it for me....

 

It is worth taking for a drive. The more small cars on the road, the better for all of us. (less SUV's)

But

If the back seat can not really be used by anyone, then what's the point. Even kids have legs, and when you put them into a car seat those legs move further forward.

I like the combination of useful space in the smart without any extras.

As far as the 500 being outdated - I don't think it is in the states. Its a look that has never really been seen here before. But since the OP is in Australia, I guess our opinions on that have no weight.

 

You can vote for the 500 logo style of your choice: Fiat USA's Photos - Wall Photos | Facebook

and Chrysler Group LLC has begun the dealer selection process for the reintroduction of the Fiat brand in the United States. Chrysler Group LLC Begins the Process of Establishing Fiat Dealer Network -- AUBURN HILLS, Mich., July 5 /PRNewswire/ --

Supposedly to be in the USA by the end of 2010. Chrysler Group plans to officially announce its U.S. Fiat dealer network locations in September.

Dealers must demonstrate how they will market, sell and service Fiat vehicles with a new customer service model. Basic guidelines include:

* Location – The majority of dealerships will be located in the identified markets.
* Eligible Dealers – Proposals from Chrysler Group's best performing dealers will have preference in the identified markets.
* Dealer Performance – Chrysler Group will evaluate interested dealers on volume performance, minimum sales responsibility accomplishment, capitalization and overall Dealer Standards score. In addition, the company will individually evaluate the proposed facility and customer handling metrics.
* Fiat Facility – A completely separate facility will be required to represent the Fiat brand.
* Fiat Team – A separate Fiat team will be required to sell and service the Fiat brand.
* Fiat Standards – Fiat standards will be unique from existing Chrysler Group Dealer Standards.
* Financial – Dealer candidates will have to show that they have the financial resources necessary to support the introduction of the Fiat brand.

 

That gives a much better explanation of why my local dealer didn't want to talk about it last year.

 

Here's a shot of a 500 next to a 450 smart:

 

On any given day anywhere near Auburn Hills MI, all you have to do is look around and you can see the Fiat 500 tooling around with an engineer at the wheel and another with a laptop data logging real world U.S. driving conditions. Something MB neglected to do with the smart.

I've already contacted a MI dealer that's been pre-selected (high sales) to sell the 500 and will be picking mine up in Nov!

 

On any given day anywhere near Auburn Hills MI, all you have to do is look around and you can see the Fiat 500 tooling around with an engineer at the wheel and another with a laptop data logging real world U.S. driving conditions. Something MB neglected to do with the smart.

Wrong: a whole slew of spy shots of the 451 were taken in the SW desert states of the USA. It was tested there at least.

 

Some people just can't master smooth driving with a manual transmission. Some people expect all cars to drive like a Buick. Some people enjoy the experience of driving well and smoothly with a vehicle that requires masterful engagement. There's a car out there each and all of these people, for most it won't be the smart. If the smart isn't for you, that is no fault of the car. The car is what it is. If fun, frugal and quirky is a bad mix, how was VW so successful in the 50's, 60's and 70's?

 

Well, I for one, see the Fiat model as somewhat lower, which means a potential head-banger getting in and out of it...just like many other cars, cheap and not cheap, you have to be young and spry to get in and out of them. With the smart (always remember, spelled with a lower case "s"), you can slip in and out with ease, never having to be a contortionist to do so. Additionally, it appears that they have in fact, paged through many old design sheets and took some old style(s) and put them together for this "500." There is absolutely no "pizzaz," to its design...just seems to be a lot of retro-fit. Under the hood it may be fine, but looking at the rear it appears that there cannot be a lot of trunk room if any at all...just put your stuff into the back seat area? Maybe that's more of a difference...no back hatch to open to get at your storage space 'cause it's all on the back seat...just throw it there!
I notice there is no mention of price. Many foreign vehicles look good price-wise until they have to equip them for U.S. standards. Really, take a good look at the two side by side...the smart is all new, inside and out, funky, cute, a head-turner. Can you even begin to say that about that Fiat 500 as we see it now?

 

Well, I for one, see the Fiat model as somewhat lower, which means a potential head-banger getting in and out of it...just like many other cars, cheap and not cheap, you have to be young and spry to get in and out of them. With the smart (always remember, spelled with a lower case "s"), you can slip in and out with ease, never having to be a contortionist to do so. Additionally, it appears that they have in fact, paged through many old design sheets and took some old style(s) and put them together for this "500." There is absolutely no "pizzaz," to its design...just seems to be a lot of retro-fit. Under the hood it may be fine, but looking at the rear it appears that there cannot be a lot of trunk room if any at all...just put your stuff into the back seat area? Maybe that's more of a difference...no back hatch to open to get at your storage space 'cause it's all on the back seat...just throw it there!
I notice there is no mention of price. Many foreign vehicles look good price-wise until they have to equip them for U.S. standards. Really, take a good look at the two side by side...the smart is all new, inside and out, funky, cute, a head-turner. Can you even begin to say that about that Fiat 500 as we see it now?

The euro 500 is already more expensive than the euro (and US) smart with less euro fuel economy to match...

Add EPA regulation hardware and NHTSA safety components and the smart is no longer the expensive one.

The new 500 was designed like the mini, to be a reminder of the car from the past. They've done well with the new 500 doing so.

As far as trunk space, it's about as equal as the Toyota iQ (as in NONE), watch some reviews of the euro spec one, no trunk space...

And I'm pretty sure that's not going to change when it gets to the US.

The smart can have a rear seat too, but like the 500 and the iQ, at expense of rear passenger space and storage.

 

In all though (darn triple post!) I would like to have the new 500. It's a nice reminder of the past 500 and even with the base engine, it's really peppy.

Not to mention just looking at it makes you think about that Italian automotive passion...

 

I hope you know what FIAT stand for right? Fix It Again Tony! LOL