Sorry to hear this. There are quite a few high mileage 451 smarts now: http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f4/who-has-most-miles-whos-over-30-000-a-29591/ so I think your case is out of the ordinary. Depending on the total cost of the proposed repairs, you might be better off swapping for a low mileage used engine.

 

valve guides.

It looks like we have the most miles logged. We put 1500 to 20,000 miles a year just going to and from work. I guess my real concern is that every 80,000 miles the car will cost me more than it resale value is at that time. If this is what we can expect from these motors then I will no longer shout the praises of Smart and go with something with more longevity.(just about every other car comes with a whole lot better warrenty, and a better maintence record.) Also, haven't had much luck finding a used motor. Maybe not looking in right places.

 

I seem to recall smart had an issue with valves a few years back. When we HAD a sealer, they had 2 or 3 with heads being replaced for valve problems. Might be worthwhile to contact smart and see what they say.

For motors, I have seen a few damaged smarts on Ebay, maybe contact the seller about a motor. Seemed like they were all from the same place.

 

Just a thought - elevate this to smart USA, either through the 800 number or through the dealership (have them get the regional Field Operations Manager involved) simply to address the question of no source for the valve guides; that doesn't sound right. Even if they source them, a replacement head might be the better option, or just closing it up and selling the car for what you can get. No sense in spending more to fix it than it's worth IMHO.

 

Just checked the online parts catalog; part number for the cylinder head is A 132 010 08 20.

 

I feel sorry for you on this. 80,000 is pretty good milage on a little city car. I wouldn't call it a lemon. Things do happen. We had a Honda Accord, the transmission went out at 90,000 mile. 4 grand. My brother had 2 transmission put in his Accord. Honda did pay his. Whats the car worth salvaged? Will it still run, so you can trade it in? Modern cars should last longer then that. You could give MB, a call. they might spilt the difference, on the repair.

 

that's the difference, if the transmission does go out Honda considers is a prenature failure -- even if it is out of warranty. My Odyssey trany had to be replaced at 125K -- yes -- 125K! and Honda papid for all but $1000 bucks! smart/MB, doesn't seem to 'feel' that same obligation to make, or stand behind a vehicle that long. City car or not, these days 80K is pretty much nothing. It's got a Japanese engine -- it should be good for WAY more than 80K.

It a shame, all the money that the OP saved on gas, during the 80,000 miles. He's got to put that back into that car. It might make sense to have it fixed, and get another 40-50,000 mile out of the vehicle. Just take his loses. You never know with a car. A tough decision, the OP got to make.

In fact, the gas savings arfe only $200-300 a year -- he will NEVER make up this kind of expense in gas savings. It frankly MUCH more important form an economic prospective to have a low-maintenance car as opposed to a higher-mileage one the requires more maintenance. And agreed -- these kind of decisions whether to fish or cut bait are NOT easy!

This is such bad news.

No modern car should run out the valve guides in 80k miles. It sounds like the engine wasn't oiling. A2Jack.

COMPLETELY agree. Anything that won't go to 200K is simply a lack of good engineering. We know so much more than we used to about materials, fatigue, damage tolerance etc. Not much excuse these days. It does sound like there might be an underlying issue though. THere have been a few smarts go over the 100K without similar work. Personally, I would also be looking for a low-mileage engine. They seem to be out there (a few folks on this forum have found them), though maybe not in great numbers. -- still, it would seem cheaper than the bill the OP is about ready to rack up.

 

There was someone on here a few months back that had the same issue , bad injector and the resulting damage . It sounds like the identical scenario , may have even been the same cyl .

 

You might try a PM to Larry (http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/members/littodevil/) as he has a lot of experience with the inside of these engines and might even have some stock valve guides hidden away.

 

It a shame, all the money that the OP saved on gas, during the 80,000 miles. He's got to put that back into that car. It might make sense to have it fixed, and get another 40-50,000 mile out of the vehicle. Just take his loses. You never know with a car. A tough decision, the OP got to make.

 

This is such bad news.

No modern car should run out the valve guides in 80k miles. It sounds like the engine wasn't oiling. A2Jack.

 

If you add a y at the end of your name, I can certainly understand.
I feel for you because your in a mess right now. The replacement head might make sense at this point. As the car is right now it's worthless to get rid off so the best way is to get it running.
Do you feel you are getting a fair treatment from the dealer? Have you considered an independent repairshop which specializes in German cars? this shop may have connections which the dealers just don't have. Just sayin...

 

Don't limit it to German auto repair shops, after all it is a Mitsubishi engine so Japanese repair shops are worth trying too.

 

There is no reason a 1.0L engine won't go 200-250,000 miles at a minimum. My smart has 104,000 on it and goes about 4000 miles on a quart of oil. You got a lemon and the dealer knows it. You should contact Mercedes HQ. Remember these cars are NOT Mercedes Benzs.

 

We are the proud owners of two Smart Cars. We bought the wifes an line and got it in June of 2008. I bought a used one for me in 2010. the wifes car has 80,000 miles on it. Afew weeks ago the check engine light came on. pulled the codes (misfire #3 cyl.) Switched 1 and 3 plugs. Code returned. Switched coils. Code returned. Took the car to the MB dealer (since they now have Smart) $125 just to plug it in. They said it has low compression in #3. Could be burnt valves or bad rings. To fix it they have to pull the motor so they can remove the head. I ok'ed the repair. they next tell me that #3 injector is bad and that the valves can not tb lapped in because the valve guides are worn too bad. The cost to remove engine and replace it was quoted as $1500. With the assorted new parts and machine work to fix the head the repair cost is now up to $3500. Now they tell me they can not find replacement valve guides. A new head will add another $1500 to the bill. They found a machine shop that will make valve guides for $400. I told them that I will make the new guides and take them to the shop doing the work.( I have been a machinist for 40 years.) I go to the shop to take measurements for the guides and learn that all six of the exahust valves are worn beyond repair. SOOOOO .... After this long discription of my problem, here is my question. Has anyone else had this problem with their car or did I get the first lemon from Smart. I am having a tought time understanding how a motor with only 80,000 miles can have all six exahust guides wear out at the same time. I have had many other cars with 300,000 pluse miles on them and never replaced valve guides. Any suggustions, advice, or general thoughts would be helpfull. I feel that even tho the car is out of warrenty, I should get help from MB because this is a design defect with the motor.

This is a common Cheap Machine Shop fix for old engines (good for 40,000 more)...

Knurling Pt 1

Knurling Pt 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=OJx-5sus4yA

 

This is a common Cheap Machine Shop fix for old engines (good for 40,000 more thousand)...

Knurling Pt 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4_oKsUdvA
Knurling Pt 2
Knurling Pt 2 - YouTube

If the head were cast iron sure. But the smart head is aluminum and needs guide inserts!

 

Watching the vidio... the next one was a guy replacing the inserts. is that possible on the smart?

 

Not sure what the limit is in your states small claims court, but it should be around 5K$.
If Smart /Benz does not cough up some help, that's where I would go.

When I took Dodge to court (peeling paint), the other side never showed. I explained the case, and the judge ruled in my favor. (not guaranteed, you still have to prove your case to his satisfaction, bring the old parts and a engine mechanic with you)

Sounds like A2jack is right, head did not get enough oil. Change the oil pump, and check the (weep?) holes in the block for clogs / casting trash / sand / sludge that may be restricting oil flow.

Anyone know what the oil pressure should be at idle? And can you check it with Scanguage?

 

You can't check oil pressure with the Scangauge (the computer itself has no idea as long as it's above a certain point). It takes a dedicated gauge. I hear normal idle pressure is 25 psi or so when warmed up, 50 psi or so when cold. Seems high to me, but it's not like I'd know.

 

worn valve guides

just wanted to thank all the replies I have gotten. I would also like to respond to a few. The car has never been without oil. Never got any other code or oil light has never come on. It has never run hot. ( most of the mechanics I have talked to say that heat might cause valve guide wear but not all at the same time.) As for knurling the guides, these are worn way past that being done. The wear was all in the same direction. My belief is that the goemetry is off on the rocker to the valve stem, causing a side load on the guides. Smart has replied to my inquires and say that they are looking into my statements. they have assured me that they will be back in touch with me. I will keep you posted. If anyone has had a simular problem, please let me know. thank you all.

 

just wanted to thank all the replies I have gotten. I would also like to respond to a few. The car has never been without oil. Never got any other code or oil light has never come on. It has never run hot. ( most of the mechanics I have talked to say that heat might cause valve guide wear but not all at the same time.) As for knurling the guides, these are worn way past that being done. The wear was all in the same direction. My belief is that the goemetry is off on the rocker to the valve stem, causing a side load on the guides. Smart has replied to my inquires and say that they are looking into my statements. they have assured me that they will be back in touch with me. I will keep you posted. If anyone has had a simular problem, please let me know. thank you all.

Thanks for the detailed description! After reading it, I was wondering what octane fuel you typically use and does it typically come from the same station?

 

I have had the same problem with my smart. It is now repaired under warranty by smart Canada. I started having an engine miss at about 45000 km and the repair was completed at 69000 km after six trips to the dealer. Each round trip to the dealer is 600 km . All the exhaust valves were burnt and showed extreme wear. The dealer also replaced the muffler due to a a cracked flex pipe found while taking the engine apart. A sticking belt tensioner was replaced. The wiring harness to the oil pressure sensor was found to be corroded after the engine was back together and being test driven by the dealer ( unrelated to the engine problem ) and was replaced. The car had it's second replacement heater blower installed during these repairs. I love the car, and service from my dealer, O'Reagan M-B Limited, and Mercedes-Benz Canada, has been great. I knew going into the smart, that service trips would be long distant affairs, but there have been too many to be honest. Very close to 10% of my total mileage has been service related. The car has been maintained as per the smart Manual and always by a M-B Canada dealer. Hopefully with M-B USA now looking after smart, you folks south of the border with get the great service we have been getting all along in Canada.

 

What they (the help line folks you find on the web site) told me is they have no responsibility past the warranty. I told them to have a nice day. Will look to an other manufacturer for my next car. Hope you have better luck than I.

 

I've got a theory.

Car driven in auto or manual mode?

 

Running hot from low octane fuel

 

naw, not unless it was pinging like a mad dog... pushing it HARD up hills etc. There are several who have a LOT of mile running reg without any issues...

 

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that's what he was talking about.

Basically anything that made the valve train run hot:

Valves can also run hot because of elevated combustion temperatures. Factors such as retarded ignition timing, lean fuel mixtures (often due to vacuum leaks), detonation (from too much compression or low octane fuel) or preignition (from hot spots caused by deposits in the combustion chamber or too hot a spark plug) can all play a role here. Likewise, exhaust restrictions such as a clogged catalytic converter or crushed pipe can make the valves run hot.

NOT MY WORDS but true.

Yes, that is the trail I was going down. Not that a manufacturing defect couldn't cause all the valves to fail in the same way, but I was thinking it might be a systemic problem that could affect them all, like low octane fuel and the resulting ignition timing change.

And, while it's true that many people have used "regular" with seemingly no problems, I think that Mitsu/MB may have been trying to protect the valves so that it is a 150-200K mile engine and not a 50-80K engine. Additionally, the qualities of gasoline vary from region to region (ethanol %s) and supplier to supplier. A little extra octane cushion when dealing with a marginal fuel supplier may make the difference.

I'm certainly not saying that this is what happened here, but it's just another theory to explore.

 

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that's what he was talking about.

Basically anything that made the valve train run hot:



Valves can also run hot because of elevated combustion temperatures. Factors such as retarded ignition timing, lean fuel mixtures (often due to vacuum leaks), detonation (from too much compression or low octane fuel) or preignition (from hot spots caused by deposits in the combustion chamber or too hot a spark plug) can all play a role here. Likewise, exhaust restrictions such as a clogged catalytic converter or crushed pipe can make the valves run hot.

NOT MY WORDS but true.

 

FYI - Always have used 90+ octane, except 4 tankfulls in 2009 while traveling in western Canada. I did use octane booster in three of those tanks. Drive 90% auto mode, 10% manual. Had a bad number two injector replaced last June .

 

90% auto mode

Fits my theory.

Auto mode = lugging = low oil pressure = insufficient lubrication at highly stressed exhaust valve guides.